Venezuela, The Starving Socialist Dystopia (Part 1)

[4daLuLZ]

Experimentation is the pathway to success.

That's how Stalin and Hitler came to power.

 

[Rod1]

As far as the 3rd largest producer, I don't know what I was thinking. US, russia, SA make that impossible.

Perhaps it was true at some point, and I was repeating something I heard long ago. Either way I was wrong.

As far as the economic collapse part, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

I don't mean to throw shade for Maduro's incompetence. Centralized socialism is a horrible idea. It is just difficult for me to see a central or south American country collapse, and not wonder if the US(since the royal "we" seems out of fashion)was behind it.

3rd in America or third in proven oil reserves.

 

[VivaRevolution]

That's how Stalin and Hitler came to power.

That's how the US Constitution was created as well.

Risk adverse people are always mediocre.

 

[Darkballs]

I notice Greece is still a country, as well as Iceland. Apparently some forms of mismanagement are lethal, and some are not. Wonder what the difference is..........

What?

So because Venezuela mismanaged their economy worse then Greece or Iceland, the US must secretly be behind it?

Venezuela's economic policies have not been shrouded in secrecy. The blunders they took are out in the open and even boasted of by Chavez so long as they appeared to be working.

Do you deny any of the points I just made regarding where Venezuela floundered? Because those well documented missteps are certainly enough to cause this catastrophe. Or if you are referring to some specific actions by the US, could you please list them out?

 

[VivaRevolution]

What?

So because Venezuela mismanaged their economy worse then Greece or Iceland, the US must secretly be behind it?

Venezuela's economic policies have not been shrouded in secrecy. The blunders they took are out in the open and even boasted of by Chavez so long as they appeared to be working.

Do you deny any of the points I just made regarding where Venezuela floundered? Because those well documented missteps are certainly enough to cause this catastrophe. Or if you are referring to some specific actions by the US, could you please list them out?

Why do some nations get bailed out, and others allowed to fall into collapse?

What economic assistance from central banks has Venezuela been offered?

That is my question.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Chavez think he can just send in his troops to take over the foreign oil companies' assets and it will be a perpetual cash cow for him without a single dollar of investment being put back into the machinery. Clearly he should have went to business school.

The saudis did the same, but they made a deal with the US to help them with security and technical assistance in exchange for selling oil in dollars and supporting US policy in the region.
Chavez was dumb to oppose the US, if he didn't he would have american/european engineers working on his state owned oil company and a special deal with the US to get F-15s and Hellfire missiles like the Saudis.

 

[Darkballs]

Why do some nations get bailed out, and others allowed to fall into collapse?

What economic assistance from central banks has Venezuela been offered?

That is my question.

Well first, none of that has anything to do as to why Venezuela collapsed. If you think they are being treated unfairly because they haven't received a bailout yet, well a couple of things:

The US doesn't control the worlds markets or banks and cannot order them to simply bail Venezuela out. Second, each bailout is it's own beast. The terms of the Greek bailout took years of arguing before an agreement was met. Greek and other European bailouts were easier to handle in the since that, as part of the EU, terms could be enforced through EU regulations to make sure those countries could meet their side of the obligations. Nothing like that really exists with Venezuela. Why would any bank be willing to give them such a huge loan without first getting the promise of a massive economic and political restructuring. To that extent, Venezuela has made no overtures to that effect. They simply don't want a bailout if it means the current political class won't remain in power. That being the case, why should any bank be inclined to lend a massive sum to a nation that shows no effort to be able to repay?

Simply, the world doesn't owe Venezuela anything.

 

[goldennirvana]

Socialism kek

 

[Arkain2K]

What economic assistance from central banks has Venezuela been offered?

Good God man, did you even try to read this thread bro??

The official stance from the Venezuelan government is, and have always been, that "There's No Problems Whatsoever in Venezuela!!! Stop offering your unwanted assistance!!!"

There's no rampant inflation - It's cool to have new bills with larger denominations!

There's no severe food shortages - we only ran into some minor hiccups with shipping and distribution!

There's nothing wrong with our plummeting oil production - we just have a few loose screws in the factories!

Everything is fine, people! These so-called "crisis" are nothing but dirty lies concocted by the Imperialists, invented to take down our Democratically-elected government!

If Chavez and Maduro repeatedly refuses humanitarian aid from their neighbors (which they labels as "foreign intervention conspiracy" against "Venezuelan sovereignty") even when their countrymen are dying in the streets, what exactly do you think the Venezuelan government's reaction was when people even hinted that this glorious Socialist utopia might needs to reach out to the "capitalist pigs" and request a major "foreign intervention" such as an economic bail-out?

Instead of asking "where's the foreign aid?", you should be asking yourself this: "Does the world really needs to force food and money on Venezuela against their wishes"?

​

When this Socialist government is gone from the picture, international aid will come and foreign capital investments will flow again.

As for now, Venezuela is adamant on kept doing their Socialist things in their own Socialist ways to build their perfect Socialist world, with dwindling supports from fellow Socialists in China that they can't possibly pay back, as it is their sovereign right.

And if Socialist Venezuela collapses, it's because that's exactly what Socialist Venezuela wanted.

 

[4daLuLZ]

That's how the US Constitution was created as well.

Risk adverse people are always mediocre.

The US was created by ppl who had no functioning system / nation. Just an expanse of land ruled by some fk 3000 miles away.

My point was that the country has run successfully, more or less, for almost 300 years.
No need to change anything. Tinker a bit, if you will. Like drop the 2nd amendment ? But no need to "experiment" with drastic change.
Countries that do that generally fk up big time.

^my opinion.

 

[4daLuLZ]

Good God man, did you even try to read this thread bro??

The official stance from the Venezuelan government is, and have always been, that "There's No Problems Whatsoever in Venezuela!!! Stop offering your unwanted assistance!!!"

There's no inflation - we just think it's cool to introduce new bills with larger denominations!

There's no food shortages - we only ran into some minor hiccups with shipping and distribution!

There's nothing wrong with our oil production - we just a few loose screws in the factories!

Everything is fine! Why do we even need anyone's assistance? These so-called "crisis" are nothing but dirty lies concocted by the Imperialists, invented to take down our Democratically-elected government!

If Chavez and Maduro repeatedly refuses humanitarian aid from their neighbors (which they labels as "foreign intervention conspiracy" against "Venezuelan sovereignty") even when their countrymen are dying in the streets, what exactly do you think the Venezuelan government's reaction was when people even hinted that this glorious Socialist utopia might needs to reach out to the "capitalist pigs" and request a major "foreign intervention" such as an economic bail-out?

Instead of asking "where's the foreign aid?", you should be asking yourself this: "Does the world really needs to force food and money on Venezuela against their wishes"?

​

When this Socialist government is gone from the picture, international aid will come and foreign capital investments will flow again.

As for now, Venezuela is adamant on kept doing their Socialist things in their own Socialist ways to build their perfect Socialist world, with dwindling supports from fellow Socialists in China that they can't possibly pay back, as it is their sovereign right.

And if Venezuela collapse, it's because that's exactly what Venezuela wanted.

Amen.

If the US does help then it's Iraq all over and ppl are like "Oh mah gawd.....they want their oil !"

You can't win.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Good God man, did you even try to read this thread bro??

The official stance from the Venezuelan government is, and have always been, that "There's No Problems Whatsoever in Venezuela!!! Stop offering your unwanted assistance!!!"

There's no inflation - we just think it's cool to introduce new bills with larger denominations!

There's no food shortages - we only ran into some minor hiccups with shipping and distribution!

There's nothing wrong with our oil production - we just a few loose screws in the factories!

Everything is fine! Why do we even need anyone's assistance? These so-called "crisis" are nothing but dirty lies concocted by the Imperialists, invented to take down our Democratically-elected government!

If Chavez and Maduro repeatedly refuses humanitarian aid from their neighbors (which they labels as "foreign intervention conspiracy" against "Venezuelan sovereignty") even when their countrymen are dying in the streets, what exactly do you think the Venezuelan government's reaction was when people even hinted that this glorious Socialist utopia might needs to reach out to the "capitalist pigs" and request a major "foreign intervention" such as an economic bail-out?

Instead of asking "where's the foreign aid?", you should be asking yourself this: "Does the world really needs to force food and money on Venezuela against their wishes"?

​

When this Socialist government is gone from the picture, international aid will come and foreign capital investments will flow again.

As for now, Venezuela is adamant on kept doing their Socialist things in their own Socialist ways to build their perfect Socialist world, with dwindling supports from fellow Socialists in China that they can't possibly pay back, as it is their sovereign right.

And if Venezuela collapse, it's because that's exactly what Venezuela wanted.

No I didn't read the whole thread, you caught my eye with the latest update, and I read that story.

Good info though, this is why I come here.

 

[Arkain2K]

No I didn't read the whole thread, you caught my eye with the latest update, and I read that story.

Good info though, this is why I come here.

Take this fella's advice, and you will gain the ability to have an informed discussion with everyone else on the subject matter in no time:

@Arkain2K You make excellent OPs. Walls of text, but informational if you want more detail. Good shit.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Its unbelivsble how naiv Chaves was trying to pull out a Castro nationalizing foreign assets.

It really boggles my mind how they could think they could litteraly steal businesses and get away with it.


It is funny the far left in my country are sugessting Duterte do the same thing.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

[lecter]

Socialism yes!

It's not REAL socialism brah

 

[Arkain2K]

Venezuela Caught Up With North Korea in Economic Freedom
By Panos Mourdoukoutas
March 5, 2017

Venezuelan socialists finally did it.

They helped Venezuela catch up with North Korea in economic freedom, that is.

That’s according to the recent 2017 Index of Economic Freedom ranking, which places Venezuela in 179th position -- next to North Korea, which occupies the 180th.

Published by the Heritage Foundation, the Economic Freedom report measures such things as trade freedom, business freedom, investment freedom, and the degree of property rights protection in 180 countries actually ranked.

Venezuela is also catching up with North Korea in corruption, while it is well ahead in inflation, which runs at 800%.

Meanwhile, its economy is imploding, with GDP down down 18.6 percent at an annual rate.

Credit rating agencies have been taking notice, racing to downgrade the county’s debt. Meanwhile, investors race for the exits, and official interest rates stand at 20.76%.

In short, it takes a whole lot of stupid government policies to implode a great economy. And Venezuelan governments of varying political colors seem to have raced to pursue all of them to the bitter end.

Which in this case, is next to North Korea.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...uela-caught-up-with-north-korea/#5d569bab2dd5

 

[ShinkanPo]

Venezuela Caught Up With North Korea in Economic Freedom
By Panos Mourdoukoutas
March 5, 2017

Venezuelan socialists finally did it.

They helped Venezuela catch up with North Korea in economic freedom, that is.

That’s according to the recent 2017 Index of Economic Freedom ranking, which places Venezuela in 179th position -- next to North Korea, which occupies the 180th.

Published by the Heritage Foundation, the Economic Freedom report measures such things as trade freedom, business freedom, investment freedom, and the degree of property rights protection in 180 countries actually ranked.

Venezuela is also catching up with North Korea in corruption, while it is well ahead in inflation, which runs at 800%.

Meanwhile, its economy is imploding, with GDP down down 18.6 percent at an annual rate.

Credit rating agencies have been taking notice, racing to downgrade the county’s debt. Meanwhile, investors race for the exits, and official interest rates stand at 20.76%.

In short, it takes a whole lot of stupid government policies to implode a great economy. And Venezuelan governments of varying political colors seem to have raced to pursue all of them to the bitter end.

Which in this case, is next to North Korea.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...uela-caught-up-with-north-korea/#5d569bab2dd5

Damn It is really baffling how their government can rationalize all that is happening, are they the Venezuelan leadership waiting for some sort of a miracle?

I read somewhere that their national wealth is near zero and that soon the government won't be able to pay for anything, so what the hell is going on there what are they really trying to do, can they be really this stupid and vicious?

And it seems this is not being talk a lot in the news, I think this should be big news.

You don't just go full North Korea you just don't.


For fuck sake the people could not even buy soap, I was told by an acquaintance a couple of months ago that when their ship docked in port the grocery store they went to is almost empty and has no running electricity and smells rotten because it has not been cleaned for months because there is no money to buy detergents.

 

[lecter]

 

[DespicablePeep]

Just laughed my head off when Vivalarevolucion asked why Venezuela was no rescued like Greece by FMI or some other bank, Venezuela cut all ties with FMI, Chavez always said their were US hand and he would never take their money

http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2007/05/01/actualidad/1178004773_850215.html

I read somewhere that their national wealth is near zero and that soon the government won't be able to pay for anything, so what the hell is going on there what are they really trying to do, can they be really this stupid and vicious?

thats common across South America, people believe Capitalism is evil and cause of all the misery, populist politician wins the election, distributes some of the oil money making things better on short term while degrading everything for the future and embezzling money, Chavez daughter supposedly has millions, in Brasil you have politicians who made millions and millions from Petrobras contracts

but the poor does not seem to care, everything is going to shit and people are still in power.

can´t wait till Venezuela runs out of money and the army finally starts a coup against Maduro.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Just laughed my head off when Vivalarevolucion asked why Venezuela was no rescued like Greece by FMI or some other bank, Venezuela cut all ties with FMI, Chavez always said their were US hand and he would never take their money

http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2007/05/01/actualidad/1178004773_850215.html



thats common across South America, people believe Capitalism is evil and cause of all the misery, populist politician wins the election, distributes some of the oil money making things better on short term while degrading everything for the future and embezzling money, Chavez daughter supposedly has millions, in Brasil you have politicians who made millions and millions from Petrobras contracts

but the poor does not seem to care, everything is going to shit and people are still in power.

can´t wait till Venezuela runs out of money and the army finally starts a coup against Maduro.

Well I think the Army should be beheaded for supporting this farce of government this long.

I am really intrigue with what is happening in Venezuela, because my country may head on a similar direction if the people and the government don't wise up, we have a slowly failing currency and our president have already blamed the Americans for it, that is not unlike what the Chavistas have whined about years ago.

There is a growing anti western sentiment among the population and everyone of them are so confident that it will work out fine.