Venezuela, The Starving Socialist Dystopia (Part 1)

Saying the situation in Venezuela is a commentary on democratic socialism is the substantive equivalent of saying the situation in Somalia is a commentary on free-market capitalism.
Every once in a while, you really nail one like this. Bravo.
 
An article from a blind ideologue doesn't change reality.
It does provide historical context of the origins of the term 'Democratic Socialism' being a trogan horse for Communism.

Saying the situation in Venezuela is a commentary on democratic socialism is the substantive equivalent of saying the situation in Somalia is a commentary on free-market capitalism.
Somalia practically has no government with no way to police itself. Good luck trying to pass it as a free market, when everyone is stealing from eachother to survive.

Let's get intellectually honest. If we want to compare capitalism to democratic socialism (the Sanders' model*) let's talk about the difference in outcomes between the US and a country like Sweden or Denmark.
Ever see the tax rates in those countries? Not just among the rich, but the middle class and poor? How about the size of the wellfare class? Or their immigration policies? Sweden is doing very well, now being the rape capital of the EU.

Saying we can copy and paste their model that governs a few million, to our country that governs over 300 million, with all of the positive talking points and hiding all the negative 'unintended consequences' is not intellectually honest.

These are still imperfect representations of the two economic philosophies but there would at least be some meat on such a bone. The Venezuela comparisons are nothing but pot shots from crack pots.
No, because socialism and communism always seeps into republics under the promise of prosperity for the middle and poor classes off the backs of the rich, and Venezuela is just another of the dozens of examples of it failing, as it always has failed for other countries, was destined to fail for Venezuela, and every single country that adopts it's model.

* And, as Chomsky rightly noted, regardless of what Bernie chooses to call himself, his entire economic platform is firmly in the tradition of the New Deal democrats.

Sanders is a New Deal, progressive democrat. In contrast to Clinton, a corporatist, neoliberal democrat - the ideology of the current DNC establishment.
And your party chose a corporatist neoliberal democrat over your savior.
 
Social democracies like Canada, Australia and countries of western Europe and Scandinavia are all thriving and have high quality of life, many of them higher than the US. Listening to some of you you'd think they were all communist hellholes. Ensuring basic social safety net and services for your citizens isn't communism. I don't know who think you're fooling when everyone has the evidence in front of their eyes that those countries are doing extremely well.
 
Is this the part where you tell me there will be hyperinflation soon due to fiat money? Maybe that we should all stock up on gold because of intrinsic value. Gonna need a tinfoil hat and guns too.

Ask the Venezuelans how they would like a few firearms and gold right now.
 
Social democracies like Canada, Australia and countries of western Europe and Scandinavia are all thriving and have high quality of life, many of them higher than the US. Listening to some of you you'd think they were all communist hellholes. Ensuring basic social safety net and services for your citizens isn't communism. I don't know who think you're fooling when everyone has the evidence in front of their eyes that those countries are doing extremely well.

I don't think you realize what's happening to their economies right now.
 
Ask the Venezuelans how they would like a few firearms and gold right now.
I'll be sure to check out Peter Schiff's broken clock guide on how to survive the financial apocalypse. If you can't tell the difference between Venezuelan situation and that of the West, you r lots are even more detached from reality than I thought.

I don't think you realize what's happening to their economies right now.

Of course we don't. Only Libertarians have all the answers according to Libertarians. The answer is always less guberment, moar gold and moar guns. I think the shortage on tinfoil rolls in Venezuela is actually caused by you guys.
 
Man, this DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM. Why did we have to wake up to how silly Bernie was? Look at what we could have been with him.
 
It does provide historical context of the origins of the term 'Democratic Socialism' being a trogan horse for Communism.

So a system of progressive taxation incorporated into a capitalist economy is "democratic socialism". Cool.

Somalia practically has no government with no way to police itself. Good luck trying to pass it as a free market, when everyone is stealing from eachother to survive.

But if Somalia instituted a system of taxation that would pay for a functioning government and law enforcement apparatus it would be building the Trojan Horse of communism! The Somali's are smarter than that. They won't fall for those kind of Leninist tricks.

And your party chose a corporatist neoliberal democrat over your savior.

My party? lol

I have never, ever been a democrat. Because in my lifetime the DNC has never been anything but a cabal of pro-oligarchic coporatists.
 
Before Chavez rose to power and decimated Venezuela's industries, there were over 12,000 corporations operating full-time in sectors other than oil (manufacturing, agriculture, mining, etc).

Now there are less than 3,000 companies in all of Venezuela, many are hollow shells of their former self after being expropriated and destroyed by the state, each barely operates a few work days each month, not because of the low oil price or the evil plots of Maduro's "foreign enemies", but simply because there are no raw materials to produce anything, thanks to the draconian rules imposed on the market.


California has been losing thousands of smaller companies to nearby states. The regulations, taxes and expensive energy make it far too hostile to operate there. I can't imagine how insane Venezuela is.
 
Social democracies like Canada, Australia and countries of western Europe and Scandinavia are all thriving and have high quality of life, many of them higher than the US. Listening to some of you you'd think they were all communist hellholes. Ensuring basic social safety net and services for your citizens isn't communism. I don't know who think you're fooling when everyone has the evidence in front of their eyes that those countries are doing extremely well.

It all makes sense now. Mainly white nations do well!
 
I sort of feel like denying the aid should be considered a crime against humanity if the situation does not improve.

It's a national tragedy when Check & Balance fails and the Supreme Court becomes nothing more than a puppet show.

Again, this has already taken shape during the Chavez years, and most Venezuelans said and did nothing.

Oh, and by the way guys, Maduro just put the military in charge of food in Venezuela:

---

Venezuelan president puts armed forces
in charge of new food supply system

July 12, 2016
The Wall Street Journal

Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro put the armed forces in charge of a new food supply system aimed at alleviating crippling shortages, ceding yet more power to a military apparatus that is already involved in everything from banking to imports.

The head of the armed forces, Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino, will be in charge of transporting and distributing basic products, controlling prices and stimulating production, according to a decree published Tuesday in the official gazette.

“All the ministries, all the ministers, all the state institutions are at the service and in absolute subordination” to Mr. Padrino’s so-called Great Sovereign Supply Mission, Mr. Maduro said in a televised address Monday night.

The elevation of Mr. Padrino makes him among the most powerful people in the socialist government, reducing the influence of Vice President Aristóbulo Istúriz, Industry Minister Miguel Pérez Abad and other ministers who held various economic roles.

“This is now a completely militarized government,” said Luis Manuel Esculpi, a security analyst in Caracas and former head of the armed forces commission in the congress. “The army is Maduro’s only source of authority.”

Since coming to power three years ago, Mr. Maduro has relied increasingly on the armed forces as a spiraling economic crisis pushed his approval ratings to record lows and food shortages led to lootings. Generals are already in charge of state companies importing the bulk of Venezuela’s food; they run the country’s largest bank, a television station and a state mining company.

The armed forces have swiftly repressed all opposition rallies as well as the food riots that flare up daily across the country.

“Maduro is giving the keys to Miraflores [presidential palace] over to a military leader who is unable to confront the economic crisis,” said opposition deputy Julio Borges. “What this means is more roadblocks, more corruption and less production.”

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/0...-forces-in-charge-new-food-supply-system.html
 
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No, not even close. Even Denmark, where Bernie always points as a great example of socialism, has strongly stated that Bernie is mistaken and they aren't socialist, and have a strong, market economy. It's much easier to start a business in Denmark than it is in the US.

Well either way, I am sure there is more to bringing people out of poverty than just simple capitalism. Many Latin American countries have many poor people, and I am sure their economies are more capitalist than socialist. 1840's South Carolina (slavery) was capitalist economy too amirite?
 
Well either way, I am sure there is more to bringing people out of poverty than just simple capitalism. Many Latin American countries have many poor people, and I am sure their economies are more capitalist than socialist. 1840's South Carolina (slavery) was capitalist economy too amirite?
Why are you sure of that? I'm
 
1. the government wanted to make everyone happy by printing lots of money and handing it out to poor people.
2. this would normally lead to inflation but the government didn't want that to happen so they imposed "price controls"
3. almost everything in Venezuela is imported so retailers couldn't buy imports with the money they earned by selling at controlled prices because foreign companies didn't want to take Venezuelan money as payment
4. to solve this, the government set up a complicated exchange system under which certain people and companies could turn in their Venezuelan money and get dollars at very attractive exchange rates (the official rate) to buy products which they would import and sell at controlled prices - the official rate is about 6 Bolivares to the dollar - the street (black market) rate is about 200 Bolivares to the dollar
5. the government got the dollars it needed by selling oil
6. when the oil price went down, the government wasn't able to hand out as many dollars as before at the attractive official rate so the retailers couldn't by products to put on their shelves.
7. I predicted that this would implode about a year ago and I turned out to be too early.
 
Social democracies like Canada, Australia and countries of western Europe and Scandinavia are all thriving and have high quality of life, many of them higher than the US. Listening to some of you you'd think they were all communist hellholes. Ensuring basic social safety net and services for your citizens isn't communism. I don't know who think you're fooling when everyone has the evidence in front of their eyes that those countries are doing extremely well.

Except none of those countries are true social democracies, especially not Canada or Australia. Canada just spent the last decade ruled by a neocon until Trudeau came in. Social democrats advocate socialism be obtained via election rather than violent revolution. But the means of production still need to fall into the hands of the working class. Social democrats in practice have instead turned to a more left wing version of the classic liberal democratic model. Social programs paid for by the free market.

So these countries are all essentially liberal democracies that are to the left of the US by varying degrees (with Canada and Australia being to the right of the Nordic countries) , but like the US share that same liberal democratic concept. It is the same thing advocated by Bernie Sanders and Hillary. It is only a matter of degree (although I don't deny that the distinction is important ). Bernie can call himself a a socialist but he is really a harder left liberal. So at the end we arguing about what kind of mixed economy we want, with the USA being way far on the right of that liberal consensus (erroneously so IMO)

I agree that Chavez is a really bad example of socialism. First off, V was like the other examples above, was a mixed system. Although his goal was socialism, he was more a political comedian and populist than anything else. So he was never going to achieve his goal when more serious minded people had already failed badly.
 
Venezuelans Ransack Stores as Hunger Grips the Nation
By NICHOLAS CASEY
JUNE 19, 2016


20160620-VENEZUELA-slide-6HQ7-master768.jpg
UMANÁ, Venezuela — With delivery trucks under constant attack, the nation’s food is now transported under armed guard. Soldiers stand watch over bakeries. The police fire rubber bullets at desperate mobs storming grocery stores, pharmacies and butcher shops. A 4-year-old girl was shot to death as street gangs fought over food.

Venezuela is convulsing from hunger.

Hundreds of people here in the city of Cumaná, home to one of the region’s independence heroes, marched on a supermarket in recent days, screaming for food. They forced open a large metal gate and poured inside. They snatched water, flour, cornmeal, salt, sugar, potatoes, anything they could find, leaving behind only broken freezers and overturned shelves.

And they showed that even in a country with the largest oil reserves in the world, it is possible for people to riot because there is not enough food.

In the last two weeks alone, more than 50 food riots, protests and mass looting have erupted around the country. Scores of businesses have been stripped bare or destroyed. At least five people have been killed.

This is precisely the Venezuela its leaders vowed to prevent.


In one of the nation’s worst moments, riots spread from Caracas, the capital, in 1989, leaving hundreds dead at the hands of security forces. Known as the “Caracazo,” or the “Caracas clash,” they were set off by low oil prices, cuts in subsidies and a population that was suddenly impoverished.

The event seared the memory of a future president, Hugo Chávez, who said the country’s inability to provide for its people, and the state’s repression of the uprising, were the reasons Venezuela needed a socialist revolution.

Now his successors find themselves in a similar bind — or maybe even worse.


The nation is anxiously searching for ways to feed itself.

The economic collapse of recent years has left it unable to produce enough food on its own or import what it needs from abroad. Cities have been militarized under an emergency decree from President Nicolás Maduro, the man Mr. Chávez picked to carry on with his revolution before he died three years ago.

“If there is no food, there will be more riots,” said Raibelis Henriquez, 19, who waited all day for bread in Cumaná, where at least 22 businesses were attacked in a single day last week.

But while the riots and clashes punctuate the country with alarm, it is the hunger that remains the constant source of unease.

A staggering 87 percent of Venezuelans say they do not have money to buy enough food, the most recent assessment of living standards by Simón Bolívar University found.

About 72 percent of monthly wages are being spent just to buy food, according to the Center for Documentation and Social Analysis, a research group associated with the Venezuelan Teachers Federation.

In April, it found that a family would need the equivalent of 16 minimum-wage salaries to properly feed itself.


Ask people in this city when they last ate a meal, and many will respond that it was not today.

Among them are Leidy Cordova, 37, and her five children — Abran, Deliannys, Eliannys, Milianny and Javier Luis — ages 1 to 11. On Thursday evening, the entire family had not eaten since lunchtime the day before, when Ms. Cordova made a soup by boiling chicken skin and fat that she had found for a cheap price at the butcher.

“My kids tell me they’re hungry,” Ms. Cordova said as her family looked on. “And all I can say to them is to grin and bear it.”

Other families have to choose who eats. Lucila Fonseca, 69, has lymphatic cancer, and her 45-year-old daughter, Vanessa Furtado, has a brain tumor. Despite also being ill, Ms. Furtado gives up the little food she has on many days so her mother does not skip meals.

“I used to be very fat, but no longer,” the daughter said. “We are dying as we live.”

Her mother added, “We are now living on Maduro’s diet: no food, no nothing.”

Economists say years of economic mismanagement — worsened by low prices for oil, the nation’s main source of revenue — have shattered the food supply.

Sugar fields in the country’s agricultural center lie fallow for lack of fertilizers. Unused machinery rots in shuttered state-owned factories. Staples like corn and rice, once exported, now must be imported and arrive in amounts that do not meet the need.

In response, Mr. Maduro has tightened his grip over the food supply. Using emergency decrees he signed this year, the president put most food distribution in the hands of a group of citizen brigades loyal to leftists, a measure critics say is reminiscent of food rationing in Cuba.

“They’re saying, in other words, you get food if you’re my friend, if you’re my sympathizer,” said Roberto Briceño-León, the director of the Venezuelan Violence Observatory, a human rights group.


It was all a new reality for Gabriel Márquez, 24, who grew up in the boom years when Venezuela was rich and empty shelves were unimaginable. He stood in front of the destroyed supermarket where the mob had arrived at Cumaná, an endless expanse of smashed bottles, boxes and scattered shelves. A few people, including a policeman, were searching the wreckage for leftovers to take.

“During Carnival, we used to throw eggs at each other just to have some fun,” he said. “Now an egg is like gold.”

Down the coastal road in a small fishing town called Boca de Uchire, hundreds gathered on a bridge this month to protest because the food deliveries were not arriving. Residents demanded to meet the mayor, but when he did not come they sacked a Chinese bodega.

Residents hacked open the door with pickaxes and pillaged the shop, venting their anger at a global power that has lent billions of dollars to prop up Venezuela in recent years.

“The Chinese won’t sell to us,” said a taxi driver who watched the crowd haul away all that was inside. “So we burn their stores instead.”


Mr. Maduro, who is fighting a push for a referendum to recall him this year over the country’s declines, said it was the political opposition that was behind the attacks on the stores.

“They paid a group of criminals, brought them in trucks,” he said on Saturday on television, promising compensation to those who lost property.

At the same time, the government also blames an “economic war” for the shortages. It accuses wealthy business owners of hoarding food and charging exorbitant prices, creating artificial shortages to profit from the country’s misery.

It has left shop owners feeling under siege, particularly those who do not have Spanish names.

“Look how we are working today,” said Maria Basmagi, whose family immigrated from Syria a generation ago, pointing to the metal grate pulled over the window of her shoe store.

Her shop was on the commercial boulevard in Barcelona, another coastal town racked by unrest last week. At 11 a.m. the day before, someone screamed that there was an attack on a government-run kitchen nearby. Every shop on Ms. Basmagi’s street closed down in fear.

Other shops stay open, like the bakery in Cumaná where a line of 100 people snaked around a corner. Each person was allowed to buy about a pound of bread.

Robert Astudillo, a 23-year-old father of two, was not sure there would be any left once his turn came. He said he still had corn flour to make arepas, a Venezuelan staple, for his children. They had not eaten meat in months.

“We make the arepas small,” he said.

In the refrigerator of Araselis Rodriguez and Nestor Daniel Reina, the parents of four small children, there was not even corn flour — just a few limes and some bottles of water.

The family had eaten bread for breakfast and soup for lunch made from fish that Mr. Reina had managed to catch. The family had nothing for dinner.

It has not always been clear what provokes the riots. Is it hunger alone? Or is it some larger anger that has built up in a country that has crumbled?

Inés Rodríguez was not sure. She remembered calling out to the crowd of people who had come to sack her restaurant on Tuesday night, offering them all the chicken and rice the restaurant had if they would only leave the furniture and cash register behind. They balked at the offer and simply pushed her aside, Ms. Rodríguez said.

“It is the meeting of hunger and crime now,” she said.

As she spoke, three trucks with armed patrols drove by, each emblazoned with photos of Mr. Chávez and Mr. Maduro.

The trucks were carrying food.

“Finally they come here,” Ms. Rodríguez said. “And look what it took to get them. It took this riot to get us something to eat.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/w...stores-as-hunger-stalks-crumbling-nation.html
 
So a system of progressive taxation incorporated into a capitalist economy is "democratic socialism". Cool.

It is pretty much true if you take the people that label themselves social democrats and the policies they implement. Although in the past the term was used differently.
 


I found this vid intredasted. It was only posted about a month ago.


La Nueva Televisora del Sur is multi-state funded, pan–Latin American terrestrial and satellite television network sponsored by the governments of Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Uruguay, and Bolivia that is headquartered in Caracas, Venezuela.

So it is basically with the exception of Uruguay funded by the axis of evil from latin america.
 
La Nueva Televisora del Sur is multi-state funded, pan–Latin American terrestrial and satellite television network sponsored by the governments of Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Uruguay, and Bolivia that is headquartered in Caracas, Venezuela.

So it is basically with the exception of Uruguay funded by the axis of evil from latin america.

Oh
 
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