Using bareknuckle pugilism techniques in MMA

[tamburello]

Don't laugh, but I was wondering why more MMA fighters don't use bareknuckle pugilism techniques from the old school days. The gloves MMA fighters use are not that far away from bareknuckle, and the old school rules aren't that far away from MMA either.

So how come you don't see many MMA fighters using bare knuckle fighting techniques, i.e like this:

 

[Trudge]

the first stance is begging for an inside thigh kick so a kick boxer would make it so he couldn't walk for a week
the second stance is far too straight to allow for a good centre of balance
he would get mauled by a wrestler
these are honest opinions for a decent post, i'm not flamin you mate
(just sayin that because my reply is so negative)

 

[CowboyPete]

Those are artists renderings of pugilists... they either had to stand their for a long damn time or the guy did it from his imagination. I highly doubt they fought that differently from the basic boxer.

 

[sha]

Now I know what style of stand-up Arona practices.

 

[k1 man]

Now I know what style of stand-up Arona practices.

LOL

 

[BlackBeltNow]

it's outdated. that's why boxing doesn't look like that anymore. it's too stiff, pionting palm inward does nothing, etc.

 

[sha]

Actually I think boxing doesn't look like this because of the change of rules (no more dirty boxing, takedowns, and gloves. early bareknuckle matches probably looked something like todays' mma standup).
So there's probably a lot to be learned from the old school bareknuckle boxers. But this painting probably doesn't do them justice (I hope).

 

[Matt Thornton]

Bareknuckle pugilism has been outdated. Boxing has evolved, and has come a long way since then.

In the days of John L. Sullivan (until he was no longer at the top), the jab didn't even exist. The weak hand was used to post or stiff-arm the opponent while swinging wildly with the back hand. Also, those fights where you hear about going into 60 rounds or more, they didn't mean 60 rounds of 3 minutes. I think, but I'm not sure, it was when a fighter went down.

When the jab was developed, it changed the game. And so did having gloves. People have figured out faster, more efficient ways to fight.

 

[sha]

The weak hand was used to post or stiff-arm the opponent while swinging wildly with the back hand.

I might be wrong, but I think Gomi used this technique in the Bushido tournament against Azeredo or Kawajiri.
I haven't seen it used much in mma but he made it seem very effective. Well of course he didn't "swing wildly" with his back hand..

 

[OpethDrums]

Now I know what style of stand-up Arona practices.

:icon_lol: good one

 

[sandokaiakm]

Ok, the thing about boxing history,
the guy who said it was mostly because of a rules change is more or less right.

In the bareknuckle days (London Prize Fight Rules), you could time shots to the head with a sun dial. Because when hand hits skull, hand usually breaks.

So the way the fights went, is you basically, manhandled your opponent with shoves, slipping in the cheap elbow, excessive clinches, as much as possible - all the while throwing alot of body shots to the side and the back.

If you annoyed/distracted, or bullied your opponent into exposing his face/jaw then youd throw.

Now since the rules are more strict, and even baby gloves can keep you from breaking your hands in most situations, bareknuckle technique no longer applies to anything but a bar room brawl.

-AKM

 

[meng_mao]

Mostly cuz MMA techniques surpass bnb techniques under roughly the same ruleset.

 

[sha]

surpass ?
What's your basis for saying that ? have you seen a lot of bkb matches with good fighters (not barroom brawl). I'm not challenging your point, just interested.

If you look at Mark Hatmaker's stuff for example, there's a lot of unorthodox strikes, it's very interesting. I'm not saying his stuff comes from bkb, but it shows that there are other ways to punch than the ones seen in modern boxing.

 

[meng_mao]

surpass ?
What's your basis for saying that ? have you seen a lot of bkb matches with good fighters (not barroom brawl). I'm not challenging your point, just interested.

If you look at Mark Hatmaker's stuff for example, there's a lot of unorthodox strikes, it's very interesting. I'm not saying his stuff comes from bkb, but it shows that there are other ways to punch than the ones seen in modern boxing.

Yes, I know there are very many good ways of punching not exhibited in this era of MMA.

bk pugilism refers to the art as it was practiced back in the day, for which there are no video records anymore. Back then, they didn't train as hard and made huge steps in innovation, like the jab. I would say knowing about the jab is a step forward, and not a step backward. So what MMA fighters know today builds on what they had, even if some stuff has been forgotten or abandoned.

 

[sha]

well I guess we agree then.

but I can't really imagine why they didn't use the jab. I mean if you've been punching with your right hand for a few years, it doesn't seem that hard to realise you have two hands and you could punch with the other too.
One thing we could probably learn from bkb is how not to break your hand, ie conditioning techniques and how to aim.

 

[meng_mao]

but I can't really imagine why they didn't use the jab. I mean if you've been punching with your right hand for a few years, it doesn't seem that hard to realise you have two hands and you could punch with the other too.

They did crosses off either hand when the shots were available.
Jabbing is the idea of controlling distance with a quick, straight shot.

 

[Kid McCoy]

Let me get hold of this broken record

 

[meng_mao]

The only solution to people saying things like "A jab didn't exist during the days of John L. Sullivan" is education, because that's not accurate.

You gotta get some historical sources and teach us then.
When I watch PBS and it tells me that Jack Johnson innovated the jab, I tend to believe it.

 

[Kid McCoy]

You gotta get some historical sources and teach us then.
When I watch PBS and it tells me that Jack Johnson innovated the jab, I tend to believe it.

Well, clearly the answer then is that the people providing detail level information to the PBS piece were not diligent in their research.

It happens all the time

 

[Chris Kimmerly]

Those are artists renderings of pugilists... they either had to stand their for a long damn time or the guy did it from his imagination. I highly doubt they fought that differently from the basic boxer.

They fought way different then the boxers of today. They just tried to hit you they had no head movement or footwork.