Using bareknuckle pugilism techniques in MMA

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by tamburello, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. tamburello

    tamburello Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
    Messages:
    987
    Likes Received:
    6
    Don't laugh, but I was wondering why more MMA fighters don't use bareknuckle pugilism techniques from the old school days. The gloves MMA fighters use are not that far away from bareknuckle, and the old school rules aren't that far away from MMA either.

    So how come you don't see many MMA fighters using bare knuckle fighting techniques, i.e like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Trudge

    Trudge Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,574
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    UK
    the first stance is begging for an inside thigh kick so a kick boxer would make it so he couldn't walk for a week
    the second stance is far too straight to allow for a good centre of balance
    he would get mauled by a wrestler
    these are honest opinions for a decent post, i'm not flamin you mate
    (just sayin that because my reply is so negative)
     
  3. CowboyPete

    CowboyPete Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    2
    Those are artists renderings of pugilists... they either had to stand their for a long damn time or the guy did it from his imagination. I highly doubt they fought that differently from the basic boxer.
     
  4. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Kyoto, Japan
    Now I know what style of stand-up Arona practices.
     
  5. k1 man

    k1 man Guest

    LOL
     
  6. BlackBeltNow

    BlackBeltNow Red Belt, but BlackBeltLastYear

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    11,322
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    daly city/San francisco
    it's outdated. that's why boxing doesn't look like that anymore. it's too stiff, pionting palm inward does nothing, etc.
     
  7. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Kyoto, Japan
    Actually I think boxing doesn't look like this because of the change of rules (no more dirty boxing, takedowns, and gloves. early bareknuckle matches probably looked something like todays' mma standup).
    So there's probably a lot to be learned from the old school bareknuckle boxers. But this painting probably doesn't do them justice (I hope).
     
  8. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Bareknuckle pugilism has been outdated. Boxing has evolved, and has come a long way since then.

    In the days of John L. Sullivan (until he was no longer at the top), the jab didn't even exist. The weak hand was used to post or stiff-arm the opponent while swinging wildly with the back hand. Also, those fights where you hear about going into 60 rounds or more, they didn't mean 60 rounds of 3 minutes. I think, but I'm not sure, it was when a fighter went down.

    When the jab was developed, it changed the game. And so did having gloves. People have figured out faster, more efficient ways to fight.
     
  9. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Kyoto, Japan
    I might be wrong, but I think Gomi used this technique in the Bushido tournament against Azeredo or Kawajiri.
    I haven't seen it used much in mma but he made it seem very effective. Well of course he didn't "swing wildly" with his back hand..
     
  10. OpethDrums

    OpethDrums Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,057
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Brown Belt

    :icon_lol: good one
     
  11. sandokaiakm

    sandokaiakm Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, the thing about boxing history,
    the guy who said it was mostly because of a rules change is more or less right.

    In the bareknuckle days (London Prize Fight Rules), you could time shots to the head with a sun dial. Because when hand hits skull, hand usually breaks.

    So the way the fights went, is you basically, manhandled your opponent with shoves, slipping in the cheap elbow, excessive clinches, as much as possible - all the while throwing alot of body shots to the side and the back.

    If you annoyed/distracted, or bullied your opponent into exposing his face/jaw then youd throw.

    Now since the rules are more strict, and even baby gloves can keep you from breaking your hands in most situations, bareknuckle technique no longer applies to anything but a bar room brawl.

    -AKM
     
  12. meng_mao

    meng_mao this belt has flava

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Mostly cuz MMA techniques surpass bnb techniques under roughly the same ruleset.
     
  13. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Kyoto, Japan
    surpass ?
    What's your basis for saying that ? have you seen a lot of bkb matches with good fighters (not barroom brawl). I'm not challenging your point, just interested.

    If you look at Mark Hatmaker's stuff for example, there's a lot of unorthodox strikes, it's very interesting. I'm not saying his stuff comes from bkb, but it shows that there are other ways to punch than the ones seen in modern boxing.
     
  14. meng_mao

    meng_mao this belt has flava

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Yes, I know there are very many good ways of punching not exhibited in this era of MMA.

    bk pugilism refers to the art as it was practiced back in the day, for which there are no video records anymore. Back then, they didn't train as hard and made huge steps in innovation, like the jab. I would say knowing about the jab is a step forward, and not a step backward. So what MMA fighters know today builds on what they had, even if some stuff has been forgotten or abandoned.
     
  15. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Kyoto, Japan
    well I guess we agree then.

    but I can't really imagine why they didn't use the jab. I mean if you've been punching with your right hand for a few years, it doesn't seem that hard to realise you have two hands and you could punch with the other too.
    One thing we could probably learn from bkb is how not to break your hand, ie conditioning techniques and how to aim.
     
  16. meng_mao

    meng_mao this belt has flava

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    They did crosses off either hand when the shots were available.
    Jabbing is the idea of controlling distance with a quick, straight shot.
     
  17. Kid McCoy

    Kid McCoy Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2003
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    The seat of global power
    Let me get hold of this broken record
     
  18. meng_mao

    meng_mao this belt has flava

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    You gotta get some historical sources and teach us then.
    When I watch PBS and it tells me that Jack Johnson innovated the jab, I tend to believe it.
     
  19. Kid McCoy

    Kid McCoy Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2003
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    The seat of global power

    Well, clearly the answer then is that the people providing detail level information to the PBS piece were not diligent in their research.

    It happens all the time
     
  20. Chris Kimmerly

    Chris Kimmerly Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,814
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Great White North
    They fought way different then the boxers of today. They just tried to hit you they had no head movement or footwork.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.