Crime Use it in a Sentence (special counsel thread v. 25)

[Farmer Br0wn]

I'm open to hearing your perspective. Why do you believe Trump's conduct is permissible?

Also @kpt018 and a few others.

Whenever someone tries to chalk up support of President Trump to a cult personality, it shows that that person's analysis is really only on the surface level.

There is no cult of personality around President Trump. President Trump is simply the Avatar of this moment for something far greater than himself.

This is a large part of the reason why his support remain so steadfast.

The reason these accusations don't move his base is simple:

They don't buy your premise.

For example, they simply don't buy the premise that President Trump gained office via some supposed extraordinarily unscrupulous manner. Any accusation to follow that builds from that first premise, is seen as being built on a foundation of lies. At that point, the perspective of a political witch-hunt is perfectly understandable. One shouldn't be surprised if a witch hunter, in an attempt to appease the mob, suddenly finds a few witches.

I'm almost certain that those on the left will not agree with this perspective, but this is still the perspective of tens of millions of your fellow Americans. At some point, these are the gaps that will need to be bridged.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I can’t think of a politician in my life time that has done something similar.

Similar, yes.
Just not extreme to the max.

 

[Darth_Inv1ctu5]

You're right. Trying to do things is bad.

We should let everything burn.

Meh I don't think his point is invalid tho, sometimes things need to be allowed to rot all the way to be cut out... I agree with the principle, not necessarily the specific implementation

 

[kpt018]

Also @kpt018 and a few others.

Whenever someone tries to chalk up support of President Trump to a cult personality, it shows that that person's analysis is really only on the surface level.

There is no cult of personality around President Trump. President Trump is simply the Avatar of this moment for something far greater than himself.

This is a large part of the reason why his support remain so steadfast.

The reason these accusations don't move his base is simple:

They don't buy your premise.

For example, they simply don't buy the premise that President Trump gained office via some supposed extraordinarily unscrupulous manner. Any accusation to follow that builds from that first premise, is seen as being built on a foundation of lies. At that point, the perspective of a political witch-hunt is perfectly understandable. One shouldn't be surprised if a witch hunter, in an attempt to appease the mob, suddenly finds a few witches.

I'm almost certain that those on the left will not agree with this perspective, but this is still the perspective of tens of millions of your fellow Americans. At some point, these are the gaps that will need to be bridged.

What is Trump an avatar for (which is greater than himself, in your words)?

I'm going to pass on the part where his supporters ignore evidence.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

There is no cult of personality around President Trump.

 

[DEN]

Also @kpt018 and a few others.

Whenever someone tries to chalk up support of President Trump to a cult personality, it shows that that person's analysis is really only on the surface level.

There is no cult of personality around President Trump. President Trump is simply the Avatar of this moment for something far greater than himself.

This is a large part of the reason why his support remain so steadfast.

The reason these accusations don't move his base is simple:

They don't buy your premise.

For example, they simply don't buy the premise that President Trump gained office via some supposed extraordinarily unscrupulous manner. Any accusation to follow that builds from that first premise, is seen as being built on a foundation of lies. At that point, the perspective of a political witch-hunt is perfectly understandable. One shouldn't be surprised if a witch hunter, in an attempt to appease the mob, suddenly finds a few witches.

I'm almost certain that those on the left will not agree with this perspective, but this is still the perspective of tens of millions of your fellow Americans. At some point, these are the gaps that will need to be bridged.

If trump is a vessel for a larger social movement can't he be an imperfect vessel? The idea of a cult following arises because it seems that many cant bring themselves to criticize the president for any reason.
I'm highly biased against trump but I thought for certain proof of felonies would cause his supporters to give pause. I understand that some dont believe these felonies merit the nullification of an election but can't you lob criticism at trump for committing felonies while still saying you believe he should stay in office?

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

If trump is a vessel for a larger social movement can't he be an imperfect vessel? The idea of a cult following arises because it seems that many cant bring themselves to criticize the president for any reason.
I'm highly biased against trump but I thought for certain proof of felonies would cause his supporters to give pause. I understand that some dont believe these felonies merit the nullification of an election but can't you lob criticism at trump for committing felonies while still saying you believe he should stay in office?

He most certainly is an imperfect vessel, as are we all.

The Apostle Paul openly persecuted Christians before his conversion. He was an imperfect vessel.

It would be hard to deny that Christianity has a major ideological influence on the American right. Part of the teachings of Christianity are forgiveness, and attainable redemption.

Meanwhile, the American left seems to be in a stage of holding everyone to an unattainable Platonic standard of perfection. The moment anyone deviates from this new unattainable standard of perfection, that deviation becomes the club in which to beat that person out of public life.

Given that those are the choices that most Americans now face, between an attainable path to Redemption, and an unattainable standard of perfection that they must be held to, it's really no wonder that our social and political system was ready for someone like President Trump.

 

[ChainFlow]

He most certainly is an imperfect vessel, as are we all.

The Apostle Paul openly persecuted Christians before his conversion. He was an imperfect vessel.

It would be hard to deny that Christianity has a major ideological influence on the American right. Part of the teachings of Christianity are forgiveness, and attainable redemption.

Meanwhile, the American left seems to be in a stage of holding everyone to an unattainable Platonic standard of perfection. The moment anyone deviates from this new unattainable standard of perfection, that deviation becomes the club in which to beat that person out of public life.

Given that those are the choices that most Americans now face, between an attainable path to Redemption, and an unattainable standard of perfection that they must be held to, it's really no wonder that our social and political system was ready for someone like President Trump.

So you would hold a working class urban fellow to the same lack of standard should he commit several felonies, too, right? Bygones be bygones? We don’t really even need a judicial system!

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

 

[kpt018]

He most certainly is an imperfect vessel, as are we all.

The Apostle Paul openly persecuted Christians before his conversion. He was an imperfect vessel.

It would be hard to deny that Christianity has a major ideological influence on the American right. Part of the teachings of Christianity are forgiveness, and attainable redemption.

Meanwhile, the American left seems to be in a stage of holding everyone to an unattainable Platonic standard of perfection. The moment anyone deviates from this new unattainable standard of perfection, that deviation becomes the club in which to beat that person out of public life.

Given that those are the choices that most Americans now face, between an attainable path to Redemption, and an unattainable standard of perfection that they must be held to, it's really no wonder that our social and political system was ready for someone like President Trump.

Vessel for what? What the hell are you talking about man?

 

[Ophydian]

He most certainly is an imperfect vessel, as are we all.

The Apostle Paul openly persecuted Christians before his conversion. He was an imperfect vessel.

It would be hard to deny that Christianity has a major ideological influence on the American right. Part of the teachings of Christianity are forgiveness, and attainable redemption.

Meanwhile, the American left seems to be in a stage of holding everyone to an unattainable Platonic standard of perfection. The moment anyone deviates from this new unattainable standard of perfection, that deviation becomes the club in which to beat that person out of public life.

Given that those are the choices that most Americans now face, between an attainable path to Redemption, and an unattainable standard of perfection that they must be held to, it's really no wonder that our social and political system was ready for someone like President Trump.

Come on dude you don’t even believe this BS. Spare us all the scripture as you can’t take what pieces you want and apply it to Trump. I’m sure Jesus is just applauding you all for breaking up families and turning away the less fortunate.

The left is looking for perfection? No they are looking for a Leader who wants to unite instead of divide, a President that didn’t pay off porn stars and x-playmates as to not sink his chances at winning.

The entire MAGA agenda got chewed up and shit out by Trump as it is Trump, Saudi and Russian interests first in that order.

 

[DEN]

He most certainly is an imperfect vessel, as are we all.

The Apostle Paul openly persecuted Christians before his conversion. He was an imperfect vessel.

It would be hard to deny that Christianity has a major ideological influence on the American right. Part of the teachings of Christianity are forgiveness, and attainable redemption.

Meanwhile, the American left seems to be in a stage of holding everyone to an unattainable Platonic standard of perfection. The moment anyone deviates from this new unattainable standard of perfection, that deviation becomes the club in which to beat that person out of public life.

Given that those are the choices that most Americans now face, between an attainable path to Redemption, and an unattainable standard of perfection that they must be held to, it's really no wonder that our social and political system was ready for someone like President Trump.

I feel that we're getting too abstract but if I can boil it down you believe trump hasnt reached a threshold of misconduct that outweighs his value as a political crusader. I'm just curious when or if you'll reach a tipping point where you can no longer accept his misconduct.
We'll see where we stand once the Mueller report is published. You may change your opinion then.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

 

[Rational Poster]

Meh I don't think his point is invalid tho, sometimes things need to be allowed to rot all the way to be cut out... I agree with the principle, not necessarily the specific implementation

It's a terrible position.

The idea that there is some quick solution to healthcare like this is Sid Meier's Civilization and you just press a button to change government types is getting ridiculous.

And the idea that letting the whole thing burn down means potentially millions of needlessly dead Americans is fine... is just gross.

The solution to the healthcare problem MUST be incremental and generational. There is no other option to such a complex problem.

The Krauts, Frogs and Limeys all had the good fortune of having their society absolutely goat fucked by a World War. Our system merely profited off it and grew bloated from it.

Over half a million people are employed in the medical insurance industry alone. That's not counting all the debt collectors and manufacturers that profit off these inefficient supply chains. You're talking about saying fuck it to some very big Jenga pieces my friend.

It's lazy, shortsighted, and juvenile.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

I feel that we're getting too abstract but if I can boil it down you believe trump hasnt reached a threshold of misconduct that outweighs his value as a political crusader. I'm just curious when or if you'll reach a tipping point where you can no longer accept his misconduct.
We'll see where we stand once the Mueller report is published. You may change your opinion then.

He won't change. See his previous post about it being a witch hunt and invalidating an election . Muellers report will be seen only as an attempt to invalidate and therefore built on nothing but lies .

It's quite astounding really . Cult may not be the correct word but it sure as shit feels like one .

 

[Rational Poster]

Also @kpt018 and a few others.

Whenever someone tries to chalk up support of President Trump to a cult personality, it shows that that person's analysis is really only on the surface level.

There is no cult of personality around President Trump. President Trump is simply the Avatar of this moment for something far greater than himself.

This is a large part of the reason why his support remain so steadfast.

The reason these accusations don't move his base is simple:

They don't buy your premise.

For example, they simply don't buy the premise that President Trump gained office via some supposed extraordinarily unscrupulous manner. Any accusation to follow that builds from that first premise, is seen as being built on a foundation of lies. At that point, the perspective of a political witch-hunt is perfectly understandable. One shouldn't be surprised if a witch hunter, in an attempt to appease the mob, suddenly finds a few witches.

I'm almost certain that those on the left will not agree with this perspective, but this is still the perspective of tens of millions of your fellow Americans. At some point, these are the gaps that will need to be bridged.

"It's not a cult, but here is why I'm still in the cult"

 

[DEN]

He won't change. See his previous post about it being a witch hunt and invalidating an election . Muellers report will be seen only as an attempt to invalidate and therefore built on nothing but lies .

It's quite astounding really . Cult may not be the correct word but it sure as shit feels like one .

Yeah it does feel like the groundwork has been laid to dismiss Mueller out of hand but I'm hoping the evidence will be too strong for a *majority of trump supporters to do that. He's a good man, and thorough so I strongly believe he'll have the goods.

 

[kpt018]

Yeah it does feel like the groundwork has been laid to dismiss Mueller out of hand but I'm hoping the evidence will be too strong for a *majority of trump supporters to do that. He's a good man, and thorough so I strongly believe he'll have the goods.

I'm much more pessimistic. There is no shortage of reasons to abandon Trump based on ethical concerns (or better stated lack of ethics). The fact that these guys are hanging on to the idea that everything is ok until an actual crime is proven illustrates that they cannot be saved.

For example, it's ok that he paid off a porn star he banged while his wife was recovering from child birth as long as he didn't break campaign finance laws? That position, which is widely held by his supporters, illustrates cult like behavior. And when case for campaign finance fraud is imminent (which it looks to be the case) the position will change to something else (all politicians do it).

For the good of the country I seriously hope you're right, though. I just don't think these people are redeemable.

 

[Rational Poster]

I'm much more pessimistic. There is no shortage of reasons to abandon Trump based on ethical concerns (or better stated lack of ethics). The fact that these guys are hanging on to the idea that everything is ok until an actual crime is proven illustrates that they cannot be saved.

For example, it's ok that he paid off a porn star he banged while his wife was recovering from child birth as long as he didn't break campaign finance laws? That position, which is widely held by his supporters, illustrates cult like behavior. And when case for campaign finance fraud is imminent (which it looks to be the case) the position will change to something else (all politicians do it).

For the good of the country I seriously hope you're right, though. I just don't think these people are redeemable.

It's worse.

They don't care even if you can prove a crime.