International US/Israel v. Iran

[Makani]

Voted no because I can't imagine this happening right now. It will take something pretty significant for us to get involved in another ground war in the Middle East.

I dunno, how are the military industrial complex's profits doing? Those last two retarded wars are burning out, we need boots on the ground damnit, preferably in multi-million dollar armored vehicles!

If I have to watch the United States pretend to care about freeing people from a totalitarian regime again I'll vomit in my boots.

 

[The Diplomat]

I don't see us going to war with Iran.

And to be honest, I don't really see how letting Pakistan have nuclear weapons would be any safer than letting Iran get them.

 

[trident]

It's a dangerous misconception to think that US bloodlust for Iran is simply surrogacy for Saudi Arabia or Israel. That's a big part of it, sure. But the American political legacy/military machinery has for decades had a vendetta for Iran much like its vendetta for Cuba, as both were able to unprecedentedly rebuke American (and in the case of Iran, British) economic colonialism and refuse to honor odious debt or expropriation of their country's wealth and resources. The very existence of the Islamic Republic is a testament to the denial of American hegemony and to the sovereignty of what would otherwise be a valuable economic asset to the US economy.

Realistically, there hasn't been a plausible reason for the fear mongering over Iran (or Cuba) for decades.

Excellent post

 

[trident]

This is over-generalizing to the point of being inaccurate. And both the Obama and Trump Administrations were bombing Syria, not Afghanistan. We pretty much own the terrain there, so no need to bomb it.

Soldiers aren’t largely opposed to fighting. We generally feel committed to finishing what we started, but there are a lot of complicated feelings about it.

I can see that I’m not going to convince you otherwise though. There are no shortage of people who hate Donald Trump in this country and believe that he will definitely start a war because that’s he thing that they would hate the most. At the end of the day, it’s just projection. We aren’t going to war. Not a new one in Iran any time soon at least. It just doesn’t make any sense.

While i feel it is very unlikely for the US to put together the international support to do this, "It just doesnt make any sense" is not a viable argument for why it wont happen. No one really likes to talk about it these days, but the build up to and invasion/occupation of Iraq made no sense and the world walked off the cliff anyway.

 

[sub_thug]

While i feel it is very unlikely for the US to put together the international support to do this, "It just doesnt make any sense" is not a viable argument for why it wont happen. No one really likes to talk about it these days, but the build up to and invasion/occupation of Iraq made no sense and the world walked off the cliff anyway.

I think this is creating a false sense of what happened. We invaded Iraq for bad reasons, not no reason at all. There is a difference here. Before we went into Iraq, bad reasons were sold as good reasons, and that's when everyone committed. It was only once we were there that our good reasons were exposed as bad reasons. So do you think there's the high probability that this is going to happen again? I think that's the question that needs to be answered before you start saying that a war with Iran is likely.

 

[HomerThompson]

I think this is creating a false sense of what happened. We invaded Iraq for bad reasons, not no reason at all. There is a difference here. Before we went into Iraq, bad reasons were sold as good reasons, and that's when everyone committed. It was only once we were there that our good reasons were exposed as bad reasons. So do you think there's the high probability that this is going to happen again? I think that's the question that needs to be answered before you start saying that a war with Iran is likely.

*false reasons

 

[EZShrimpn]

While i feel it is very unlikely for the US to put together the international support to do this, "It just doesnt make any sense" is not a viable argument for why it wont happen. No one really likes to talk about it these days, but the build up to and invasion/occupation of Iraq made no sense and the world walked off the cliff anyway.

The real question seems to be at this point, when is the right time to get an anti-war movement in the U.S. started again. At the current moment there isn't going to be any political support for such a movement, the establishment at large wants us to take the road of force. The reasoning behind it's use is simply an inconvenience.

 

[sub_thug]

*false reasons

Largely, that is true. WMDs were found, but they were old as hell. They appeared to be remnants of the Iran-Iraq War when we definitely knew that Saddam had chemical weapons. However, we didn't find any evidence that supported the notion that he could manufacture any new chemical, nuclear, or biological weapons.

I have always believed that Bush sent us to war because he wanted to. Not for oil, certainly not for Iraqi Freedom, or the reasons that people typically point to (I actually believe this grudge stems from when Saddam tried to have Bush Sr assassinated). I think this was somehow more basic, kind of like punching a guy when you're drunk. You don't do it because it makes sense, you do it because you want to. I think that he was looking for any reason that he could get from the word go, and after 9/11, terrorism was the hot topic. George Tenet, being the yes man that he was, said, "Boss, I think this is the reason that you've been looking for. The intel community was about 50-60% sure that this was true, which normally isn't enough to go to war over. That's a resounding, "Uh, maybe? Sure, why not..." If you are going to commit American forces, you're typically looking for, "Definitely. This intel suggests that this is 98% likely that this is the case." But like I said, Bush wanted this fight, so he didn't care about good reasons. It was good enough for him, so he jumped in very foolishly. And here we are today...

A lot of people like to suggest that there was a secret, sinister plot behind it all. I just don't buy that. I think it was a case of pure stupidity, acting on emotion instead of facts. Men are wise when the data creates the conclusion, not when a conclusion is created and the facts are selected later.

 

[trident]

I think this is creating a false sense of what happened. We invaded Iraq for bad reasons, not no reason at all. There is a difference here. Before we went into Iraq, bad reasons were sold as good reasons, and that's when everyone committed. It was only once we were there that our good reasons were exposed as bad reasons. So do you think there's the high probability that this is going to happen again? I think that's the question that needs to be answered before you start saying that a war with Iran is likely.

I didnt say a war with Iran is likely.

you cant make the claim we went to Iraq bc of bad reasons.

The reasons were false, obviously so to anyone paying attention. The choice to go to war was pushed down the throats by that administration and the complicit media who both pushed an emotional decision making response, not a logical one.

Anyone in the public supporting that war at that time was making an emotional choice. No one supports that decision now. Theres a deep shame for those that did if they spend a moment thinking about how easily they were duped.

Of course theres still a few left around claiming it was all just bad reasons, but its laughable to sum up such a powerful and succesful propaganda campaign as a "bad reason". It was a deliberate and conscious effort, not "oh whoops, well Pottery Barn rules I guess, derp"

 

[sub_thug]

I didnt say a war with Iran is likely.

you cant make the claim we went to Iraq bc of bad reasons.

The reasons were false, obviously so to anyone paying attention. The choice to go to war was pushed down the throats by that administration and the complicit media who both pushed an emotional decision making response, not a logical one.

Anyone in the public supporting that war at that time was making an emotional choice. No one supports that decision now. Theres a deep shame for those that did if they spend a moment thinking about how easily they were duped.

Of course theres still a few left around claiming it was all just bad reasons, but its laughable to sum up such a powerful and succesful propaganda campaign as a "bad reason". It was a deliberate and conscious effort, not "oh whoops, well Pottery Barn rules I guess, derp"

See post 148

 

[EZShrimpn]

Largely, that is true. WMDs were found, but they were old as hell. They appeared to be remnants of the Iran-Iraq War when we definitely knew that Saddam had chemical weapons. However, we didn't find any evidence that supported the notion that he could manufacture any new chemical, nuclear, or biological weapons.

This is kind of a moot point, since the reasoning that they had old weapons was not the driver for the use of military force. Those weapons were under monitoring by U.N. weapons inspectors.

Remember the G.I. Joe mobile weapons lab playset that made it's way around CNN as presented by Colin Powell to the U.N.?

It was only surpassed in it's silliness by the G.I. Joe Bin Laden underground ant farm fortress.

 

[sub_thug]

This is kind of a moot point, since the reasoning that they had old weapons was not the driver for the use of military force. Those weapons were under monitoring by U.N. weapons inspectors.

Remember the G.I. Joe mobile weapons lab playset that made it's way around CNN as presented by Colin Powell to the U.N.?

It was only surpassed in it's silliness by the G.I. Joe Bin Laden underground ant farm fortress.

http://archive.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=42664

There was doubt about those inspections, but yeah, the mobile labs and cave fortress drawings are some crazy shit.

 

[luckyshot]

Looks like sanctions are back on...
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/u...so-nuclear-deal-up-for-vote-jan-15th.3687359/

Poking and provoking.

Because Trump doesn't know how to go to war. He literally would have no idea

Trump will say yes to whatever his generals tell him to do. He has no interest in standing up to generals to the extent of Eisenhower, JFK, or even Obama. He’s been nothing but sycophantic toward the military since the early days of his campaign. It’s like the one thing he’s been consistent on.

And you know the old saying about asking a general if you need a war, right?

 

[EZShrimpn]

Another Iranian Scientist will be assassinated within the next month or so.

 

[Contra-dictator]

Another Iranian Scientist will be assassinated within the next month or so.

By Homer for the sake of the bigger picture!

 

[mcveteran81]

@luckyshot thanks for the heads up about this thread brudda.

@HomerThompson I know we don't always see eye to eye, but I'm going do you a solid. Great f*cking thread man, seriously. More people need to be talking about this, because this in fact a very real and very relevant topic / developing situation.

I hope to God people can wake up and see that 'Murica Fuck yeah!" wants to go kill some Iranian sand shepherds. Oil to be had, money to be made, innocent young patriotic lives to be lost and depopulation agenda engaged.

In other words, Iran looks like it could enjoy itself a little bit of freedom.

 

[mcveteran81]

Can't wait for that Gog and Magog War, so that we all die, and only the elites survive thanks to their high-end bunkers. Voted Yes, Humanity needs to leave this planet, destroying themselves.

More like Albert Pike's War(s);

Who is Albert Pike : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pike

What are Albert Pike's war(s) : http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm

WW3 according to Pike : The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the 'agentur' of the 'Illuminati' between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion.

We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.

 

[mcveteran81]

I had honestly thought admins killed this sticky.

Thank God they did not. This is relevant.

 

[HomerThompson]

@luckyshot thanks for the heads up about this thread brudda.

@HomerThompson I know we don't always see eye to eye, but I'm going do you a solid. Great f*cking thread man, seriously. More people need to be talking about this, because this in fact a very real and very relevant topic / developing situation.

I hope to God people can wake up and see that 'Murica Fuck yeah!" wants to go kill some Iranian sand shepherds. Oil to be had, money to be made, innocent young patriotic lives to be lost and depopulation agenda engaged.

In other words, Iran looks like it could enjoy itself a little bit of freedom.

Thanks man. I think it's a very important topic too.

 

[mcveteran81]

Does anybody else think a war with Iran would be protested harder, by far, than any American war, including Vietnam? I think it would get absolutely batshit.

I wish I had more faith in our ordinary citizenry.....but I hope you are right about this. I hate how fox news do these complete bullshit polls or opinions that run across the T.V screen saying shit like, "Yeah 54% of Americans are willing to go to war". God I hate that shit. It's predictive programming man, make everyone viewing it think "oh shit that many people want to go to war? fuck it I'm in."

Most the people I work with are like fucking pandas. I tell them this shit and they just shrug and want to to go back to talking about whatever Netflix junk their watching. Sometime I wish battery wasn't a crime.