UFC Founder wanted Rickson Gracie to face Aleksandr Karelin

[Morning Star]

Damn that would have been epic

 

[plataoplombo]

I think it's pretty ballsy that the Gracies even considered this. The knew about wrestling and how bjj would match up. I'm sure in those luta livre matches there was someone who was predominantly a wrestler.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Any videos of Karelin finishing strong NHB competition? Genuinely asking, to assess whether he would have been a Bo Nikal instead.

Did you just compare Bo Nikal to Aleksander fookin Karelin?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Woulda shoulda coulda…but didn’t. I think most educated enthusiasts (and you’re clearly one) would agree that we never know how an “athlete” from one discipline would cross over into MMA.

We also know that many decorated people from one sport don’t succeed in another. The greatest and most decorated thai boxer I’ve ever met got choked to sleep in the first round of his very first pro MMA fight and promptly retired. And there are plenty of amazing wrestlers who freeze once they get punched in the face. MMA is MMA. An Olympic medal in wrestling is great but it’s not fighting. At all.

Of course you’re free to theorize on what Karelin MIGHT have done against actual MMA guys as if he were a childhood cartoon hero (the Hulk?). That’s totally fine and partly what this forum is for after all. “My guy would kill your guy!!!”

But the debate isnt Karelin vs MMA guys, it was against early UFC competitors in an open weight fight… you’re clueless is you don’t think Karelin would simply manhandle everyone around at that time.


Oh and if it even needs to be said, Rickson was NEVERRR going to fight Karelin.

 

[Señor Dudu Bird]

Karelin throws him out of the ring.

 

[Bork Neslar]

They never actually fought, so that means nothing.

 

[JPOMMA]

But the debate isnt Karelin vs MMA guys, it was against early UFC competitors in an open weight fight… you’re clueless is you don’t think Karelin would simply manhandle everyone around at that time.


Oh and if it even needs to be said, Rickson was NEVERRR going to fight Karelin.

Sure bud, in this fantasy world you described, your unicorn beats my unicorn. In the meantime, in the real world, only one of the two actually stepped up in open weights vale tudo/NHB/MMA fights.

 

[BOTTICELLI]

Karelin by slam and first degree murder

 

[smart.feller]

As much as I love jiu jitsu (and still train as an old ass man), Karelin would have destroyed Rickson. Like bad bad.

 

[Adamant]

Aleksandr Karelin was a competent Sambo champion.
I suspect he wouldn't have issues defending subs from Rickson, before violently slamming him through the mat

Karelin vs Maeda (highlights)

Full match (choreographed)

No doubt Karelin would have the size and strength advantage. Bigly. But by all accounts Rickson was miles ahead of his entire family when it came to BJJ. Sure, people like to shit on the Gracie's, but I've never heard one person who actually rolled with Rickson say anything negative about the experience. When he hits the ground against Karelin I don't think he would be confused like Maeda was. Perhaps Karelin is too strong, but technique generally > power so perhaps Rickson ends up catching him from bottom. Karelin in these videos looks slow as hell. Give Rickson time and he catches him like he caught Mark Kerr.

 

[Cid]

Little known fact:

Ridley Scott credits the idea of acid for blood in the Alien movie to reports of a wrestling mat being burnt through by the blood of Karelin when he suffered a cut in practice.

It is not currently known if this incident actually occurred.

 

[TheBulge]

Woulda shoulda coulda…but didn’t. I think most educated enthusiasts (and you’re clearly one) would agree that we never know how an “athlete” from one discipline would cross over into MMA.

We also know that many decorated people from one sport don’t succeed in another. The greatest and most decorated thai boxer I’ve ever met got choked to sleep in the first round of his very first pro MMA fight and promptly retired. And there are plenty of amazing wrestlers who freeze once they get punched in the face. MMA is MMA. An Olympic medal in wrestling is great but it’s not fighting. At all.

Of course you’re free to theorize on what Karelin MIGHT have done against actual MMA guys as if he were a childhood cartoon hero (the Hulk?). That’s totally fine and partly what this forum is for after all. “My guy would kill your guy!!!”

And the cage is also a different issue mentally. Even MMA fighters who fought a career in the ring have a tough time adjusting to the cage(Fedor always felt rushed and uncomfortable once he fought in the cage).

I remember when Floyd Mayweather was discussing a potential MMA fight and he said hell no, basicely that it freaks him out even the issue of not having shoes on and fighting barefoot.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

I know i'm swimming against the tide here, but I wouldnt have counted Rickson out tbh. I think Karelin may well have willingly gone to ground with Rickson out of pure instinct at some point and in spite of his size/strength/athleticism advantages he could still absolutely have gotten caught in a sub. Its pretty much a 50/50 fight imo.

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

This would have been something to behold. Unforgettable fight I would think.

 

[TheBulge]

I know i'm swimming against the tide here, but I wouldnt have counted Rickson out tbh. I think Karelin may well have willingly gone to ground with Rickson out of pure instinct at some point and in spite of his size/strength/athleticism advantages he could still absolutely have gotten caught in a sub. Its pretty much a 50/50 fight imo.

I think it depends on Karelin's strategy. If he treats it like a wrestling match he will be subbed on the ground if he doesn't KO Rickson with a slam. If he trains specifically to hold on to Rickson on the ground and just survives it will be a lame draw.