UFC fighters make more than boxers

[Luthien]

Lots of Skittles and catnip for us

 

[jx820]

Comparing a sport to a promotion, and median to an average, and all with unsourced info is all tragically pointless.

No one in the UFC is underpaid. Everyone gets EXACTLY what's on their prenegotiated, signed contract. If they don't like that amount, they should consider collective bargaining like Baseball players, or better agents and managers like Hollywood freelancers, or starting their own promotions like Goldenboy, or becoming bigger stars like Conor, or doing something different like Ronda. I support any and all of the above. Whining about it is tougher to support.

 

[avenue94]

This, it'd be helpful to have the average annual income of boxers to compare apples to apples.

Best you could do is just look at purses and how they are distributed. Or control for ranking/drawing power. Boxing and mma pay are actually comparable across about 80 percent of the sport, with 2 areas where they diverge.

Consider this, (42%) earned six-figures

UFC Payouts:

Lowest Tier: from $10,000 to $30,000 per fight
Middle Tier: from $80,000 to $250,000 per fight
Highest Tier: from $500,000 to $3,000,000 per fight
This does not include bonuses of any kind or endorsements.

Here is an example of a mid-level (Waterson) and low-level (Herrig) UFC pay for UFC 229:

• Michelle Waterson $100,000 (includes $50,000 win bonus) def. Felice Herrig $40,000. So if Herrig fights three times a year, wins a bonus, and has a few endorsements, she is making $150K+. Not great, but considerably better better than a low level boxer that fights 3X per year.

You wanna give a source? I am very doubtful a plurality of the roster earns 6 figures in gross, let alone net.

A lot of Sherdoggers only know about half a dozen big name boxers, they've no idea about purses down the cards.

And you want to compare the pay of unranked boxers versus top 30 fighters in mma? Odd comparison to make.

$12k/12k is getting paid better than everyone except the main and co-main on the boxing card? Is the pay really that bad for the boxing undercard?

Yes generally. Boxers on the undercards are usually 4-3 or 5-0 and effectively the equivalent of regional talent. A boxing card covers world level to regional, while a UFC card is generally top 100 or better fighters.

Thats the one thing UFC has changed for the better, they compensate the undercard way better and promote the entire card.

Unfortunately, ESPN era is slipping toward the boxing model because of oversaturation.

 

[avenue94]

Another 15 years or so

boxing is declining in terms of viewership. It’s usually 1-2 big fights a year.

mma growth continues to get stronger and stronger. Kids now being born will train more for MMA than boxing , IMO, thus making the mma pool even deeper.

You clearly don't watch boxing. Sport is fine, talent pool is fine. It's got markets that the UFC still won't even have scratched 15 years from now. Both sports will go on fine.

What's also wild to me is that Yordenis Ugas only got $50k as someone who would go on to win a world title and defeat Manny Pacquiao.

And now Ugas has earned more than all but maybe the top 5 highest earning UFC fighters. Despite not speaking English really and being more or less casual-unfriendly.

Thing is no one complains about fighter pay in Bellator, ONE Championship, etc.

It's always UFC fighter pay.

You realize the UFC sets wages in the mma market and have a stranglehold on marketshare (about 90 percent domestically, 75ish worldwide) and elite fighters?

And that's why TS is using the UFC since everyone complains about UFC fighter pay

However, if you want to compare org to org, we can put average UFC fighter pay against average boxer pay from Top Rank Boxing, Golden Boy Productions, Mayweather Productions, etc. I don't think the numbers would be much different.

They are very different, boxing promoters pay out anywhere from 60-70 percent to fighters, whereas the UFC pays under 20 percent. We're talking boxing promoters that in a good year pull 10 or 15 percent profit, while the UFC is pulling close to 50 percent.

Feel free to show us the numbers. I don't have that information and I'm not going to speculate.

Which promoters do you want? Goldenboy's are public, Matchroom, Frank Warren, maybe Top Rank, don't recall there.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

These recent stats may surprise a lot of people who thinks boxers are paid more than UFC fighters.

The average UFC fighter made $160,022 in 2021, up from average earnings of $146,673 in 2020. 256 fighters (42%) earned six-figures in 2021, up from 219 fighters (38%) in 2020. 116 fighters (19%) made less than the average U.S. income ($25,000). The highest-paid UFC fighter was Conor McGregor, with $10,022,000 (without PPV bonuses).

The median salary for a professional boxer is $51,370, which may surprise many of you looking to become a professional boxer. This means that half of the professional boxers competing today earned less than this amount. Only the top 1% of all professional boxers earn more than a million dollars per year, the lowest 10% of all professional boxers earn less than $19,220 per year.

This is a terrible way to compare pay between these two sports. Here is a top ten list from 2021. The only UFC fighters on the list are Conor and Dustin. Dustin is only there because he fought Conor twice. There are always boxers making big money but Conor is an anomaly. Without Conor which will be in a few years you might not even see a UFC fighter on the top 10 list.
https://www.givemesport.com/1811211...lvarez-top-10-highestearning-fighters-in-2021

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Why do median and average comparison it's not apples to apples. A for effort.

Again I think a way of making the UFC look better, basically a way of removing the higher boxing paydays from the results by using median.

Biggest PPV of all time or close to it, MayMac…. Under card guys fighting for $5k and under. View attachment 920060
You will regularly see under card boxers fighting for $200-800.

It’s hard to compare directly to UFC, but in MMA you see that also in regional fights.

It’s gotten to where people just say “UFC pays shit”. They don’t. They pay more than any other MMA promotion. What the real knock is that the UFC pays a shit percentage of their overall earnings to their fighters.

Only the opening few matches though, 2 guys outside the main event earnt more than $500K were as by comparison on the biggest UFC card ever 229 nobody outside the main event earnt that much.

That was a decently stacked card as well with guys like Fergerson and Lewis who have fought for titles.

 

[Tweak896]

I care more about lower level fighters pay than I do if McGregor gets 10 or 50 million or whatever he gets paid. I think it's been a waste of so much discussion here on sherdog with how many millions the top guys make compared to boxing. Let the big fighters negotiate pay like people have done everywhere, if they don't think they will get what they're worth then they should try to get it at another organization.

 

[avenue94]

I care more about lower level fighters pay than I do if McGregor gets 10 or 50 million or whatever he gets paid. I think it's been a waste of so much discussion here on sherdog with how many millions the top guys make compared to boxing. Let the big fighters negotiate pay like people have done everywhere, if they don't think they will get what they're worth then they should try to get it at another organization.

How do you raise lower level pay? You get the support of higher paid guys. That's how it works in nearly every sport. Yes it's not ideal but pat changes hard to come top-down, not from the grassroots, so to speak.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

How do you raise lower level pay? You get the support of higher paid guys. That's how it works in nearly every sport. Yes it's not ideal but pat changes hard to come top-down, not from the grassroots, so to speak.

Also I think you could argue what happens in the UFC also filters down to smaller orgs, they set the standards that others follow.

I would say as well that in boxing I think there is naturally more "smaller" pro events than in MMA which will lower average wages in these kinds of comparisons. Boxing is a more conventional sport where you need a broader base of talent to give you the best results at the top. MMA really isnt like that, a lot of the talent base in MMA is built on other sports(wrestling, BJJ, kickboxing, etc), you don't nesserally need to have as many lower level fighters involved in MMA to give you the same elite talent at the top, your already cherry picking the better talent from other sports. So you don't have as many lower level MMA pros around being paid less depressing the average figures(even if they were for MMA as a whole not just the UFC).

Actually though I think that also means MMA is a sport thats VERY dependant on pay, other sports you need that broad base of talent building up sportsmen but MMA doesnt need that as much, if you pay the money you can bring in talent from other sports. Its why MMA really exploded talent wise around the millenium when money was suddenly on offer.

Thats really what people seem to fail to understand, this isnt just about looking out for the fighters its about looking out for the standards of the sport. When the UFC take the vast majority of earnings themselves there not just ripping off the fighters there ripping off the fans who end up watching a lesser product that if the UFC invested that money in talent.

 

[avenue94]

Also I think you could argue what happens in the UFC also filters down to smaller orgs, they set the standards that others follow.

Yeah, pretty much. It's not like Bellator has the money to offer 100/100 contracts to everybody, it's the UFC can pay the most and everyone else tries to compete with that.

I would say as well that in boxing I think there is naturally more "smaller" pro events than in MMA which will lower average wages in these kinds of comparisons.

It's certainly far less concentrated, hence you have competition, which is always the main driver of wages.

Actually though I think that also means MMA is a sport thats VERY dependant on pay, other sports you need that broad base of talent building up sportsmen but MMA doesnt need that as much, if you pay the money you can bring in talent from other sports. Its why MMA really exploded talent wise around the millenium when money was suddenly on offer.

I actually disagree on this. Increasing pay isn't so much as attracting new talent (sure, maybe a little from amateur wrestling, which has declined in recent years in mma as pay in that are increased), but retaining existing talent. You can make the high end pay in mma comparable to say football, but combat sports requires far too niche a skillset and durability than other sports.

Thats really what people seem to fail to understand, this isnt just about looking out for the fighters its about looking out for the standards of the sport. When the UFC take the vast majority of earnings themselves there not just ripping off the fighters there ripping off the fans who end up watching a lesser product that if the UFC invested that money in talent.

Yeah, this is really baffling. Who goes out for groceries and is like, you know what, I want only there to be one option for me to buy and no competition forcing that option to compete for my money through better products and services. Like I've said in other threads, it's just sad how ok newer fans are with some of the cards the UFC has put on and how many times the UFC has bungled superfights through cheapness.

 

[Tweak896]

How do you raise lower level pay? You get the support of higher paid guys. That's how it works in nearly every sport. Yes it's not ideal but pat changes hard to come top-down, not from the grassroots, so to speak.

I don't believe in trickle down. Look at boxing. They have the highest paid boxers, and the undercard is paid lower than the UFC undercard most times.

 

[Bubzeh]

10/10 is a disgrace and needs to be upped.

But I couldn’t care less if another man is making 1 mill instead of 10 mill and neither should you. Let them worry about it ffs.

 

[avenue94]

I don't believe in trickle down. Look at boxing. They have the highest paid boxers, and the undercard is paid lower than the UFC undercard most times.

I don't believe in trickle down economics either. But undercard fighters have next to zero leverage and are too replacable to stand up to the UFC. Hence the best bet is boosting fighter pay at the higher ends and giving lower ranked guys the knowledge and leverage to say, "hey, that guy on his third contract is getting ___, why am I getting so much less, I want a better contract"

Otherwise, you're talking regulatory changes to increase competition.

P.S. You realize undercard boxers are the equivalent of regional talent right? Not UFC undercard talent.

 

[kflo]

I don't believe in trickle down economics either. But undercard fighters have next to zero leverage and are too replacable to stand up to the UFC. Hence the best bet is boosting fighter pay at the higher ends and giving lower ranked guys the knowledge and leverage to say, "hey, that guy on his third contract is getting ___, why am I getting so much less, I want a better contract"

Otherwise, you're talking regulatory changes to increase competition.

P.S. You realize undercard boxers are the equivalent of regional talent right? Not UFC undercard talent.

What do you think ufc undercard talent is equivalent to in boxing?

but pay for undercard level ufc fighters in other orgs rising is what would raise pay for ufc undercard fighters. The ufc doesn’t simply set the market for them. The rest of the market sets the floor.

 

[welcometohavoc]

You wanna control for ranking or drawing power or you just like making useless comparisons?

Also lol at comparing median salary to average salary when you have Conor skewing the average so much.

I mean there are very few UFC fighters who actually draw well so I don't see your point.

There might be a few guys who deserve more but overall people are getting paid for how well they entertain, and apparently better than boxers

 

[avenue94]

What do you think ufc undercard talent is equivalent to in boxing?

Depends on the card, there's a good amount of variance. Feel free to pick one. But generally, UFC is probably going to be top 30 fighters and above, at a minimum. Depending on the division.

but pay for undercard level ufc fighters in other orgs rising is what would raise pay for ufc undercard fighters. The ufc doesn’t simply set the market for them. The rest of the market sets the floor.

The UFC sets what general contract terms are going to be used. And sort of, I wouldn't really say regional promoters are setting a wage floor for elite fighters or near elite fighters, which is what most people are interested for fighter pay it seems. The UFC generally sets the wages, other promotions have to compete with it or not be able to attract fighters essentially.

I mean there are very few UFC fighters who actually draw well so I don't see your point.

More than most people realize.

And no mma fighters do not get paid better than boxers for the most part. People need to stop confusing UFC pay (aka pay at the 80th percentile and up) with overall mma pay (which is heavily driven by the UFC but far more expansive).

Fighters don't get paid on how well they entertain, they get paid on how much leverage they have in negotiations, which isn't much compared to boxing or most other sports.

 

[BigDramaShow26]

Im so over this narrative from the MMA media. This, "oh if you look at the guys on the early undercards they barely make anything....

Oh yeah? Well the UFC doesn't represent all of MMA. This is such an obvious point and yet I hear MMA pundits use it when comparing the two. Take the number of male fighters in the UFC and compare the same amount of boxers starting from the highest paid. This isn't a conversation. Hell add Bellator if you want.

The UFC is supposed to represent the highest form of MMA so we should compare the highest level boxers.

Or we can start comparing every single MMA organization including the ones where guys make 100 bucks to win.

 

[BigDramaShow26]

They have paid more for years now but too many people just listen to Jake Paul instead of actually doing their own research. Avenue94 to say Connor skews the average is laughable. Floyd Mayweather, Canelo, and the 3 heavyweight champions skew boxing numbers. Floyd handled his own promotion and that is why he went from making $1 million to $100 million per fight. Since Floyd is retired now I would love to hear how many American boxers make $1 million per fight. I am going to guess it is under 5 guys. I bet that the UFC has more than 10 guys.

You are so wrong.

Seriously you're so off it's funny.

Let's start here. Floyd was making over a million a fight with Top Rank for YEARS.

Under 5 American fighters? That's just hilarious. Without looking I'd guess the number is closer to 100 than 5.

How about this. Shakur Stephenson fights this weekend. In his last fight, he and his American opponent both made more than 1.5 million. That's a 130 lb fighter btw.

 

[BigDramaShow26]

Why is this news? I thought it would be obvious. This fighter pay stuff is a bit overblown. These guys are making more than ever. I do agree that they are underpaid but this is slowly changing.

It's fake news.but carry on.

 

[kflo]

Depends on the card, there's a good amount of variance. Feel free to pick one. But generally, UFC is probably going to be top 30 fighters and above, at a minimum. Depending on the division.

Not sure why you think the UFC undercard is all top 30 globally. Many of them are interchangeable with 30 other fighters in their division globally. What does the typical #50 boxer make?

The UFC sets what general contract terms are going to be used.

No they don’t.

And sort of, I wouldn't really say regional promoters are setting a wage floor for elite fighters or near elite fighters, which is what most people are interested for fighter pay it seems. The UFC generally sets the wages, other promotions have to compete with it or not be able to attract fighters essentially.

no, they don’t. The ufc has limited capacity. They recruit from all the other orgs. The other orgs are competing with each other. If the ufc wants a fighter, they need to just pay more than other orgs are willing to pay for similar talent. That’s not the ufc setting the mark. Most fighters will jump to the ufc if the pay is even comparable.

More than most people realize.

And no mma fighters do not get paid better than boxers for the most part. People need to stop confusing UFC pay (aka pay at the 80th percentile and up) with overall mma pay (which is heavily driven by the UFC but far more expansive).

Fighters don't get paid on how well they entertain, they get paid on how much leverage they have in negotiations, which isn't much compared to boxing or most other sports.

The leverage they have in negotiations is based on the relative value they bring, what replacement talent market rates are, and what they are able to get from competitors. Not based on total revenue for the ufc.

Again, here’s marvel movie revenue and expenses. Note how they don’t pay some fixed % of revenue.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/323886/marvel-comics-films-production-costs-box-office-revenue/
Endgame paid 13%, hulk paid 57%. They don’t just have some wage share. The avengers were screwed (except for hulk of course)!

The yankees pay a much smaller % of revenue than small market teams as well. Because they compete for the same talent. The yankees don’t just set the market. They pay what they have to to get the talent they want competing against other franchises (and yes, I’m aware of luxury tax).