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UFC 254 - Khabib vs. Gaethje - Official thread

the last 2 were the worst... and this one ain't much better!

the only thing i'm most confident on is that khabib will shoot for a takedown as soon as gaethje throws his leg kick.
Last two? I wish every card was like Sandhagen/Moraes that was betting heaven, dogs galore. I agree with you on the Holm V Aldana which was card before that. But looking back on that now, Holm and GDR at pick em odds were gifts.

I like a bit on there. Love Yakovlev to potentially grind out Alvarez. Kenny V Wood is super interesting. You got Kenny who has fought all grapplers and Wood all strikers in the UFC. You cant even research them properly, but fascinating match. Both well rounded, good IQ and cardio. I got a bit on Wood, think the fight will clearly be closer than odds indicate.

I got a unit early on Rakmanov, and now its a pickem. Happy with that, Olivera is a tough test but he is also a flake. Playing around with some props too. Geathje is value in my opinion, I could be wrong, will report back after research.
 
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IMO wait till the last minute if you want Gaethje. Huge money tends to hit Khabib last minute, especially if you've got access to an exchange. Been a pretty strong theme with Dagestanis/Arabic fighters as a whole in the Fight Island events. Some crazy surges like Azaitar going from +120 to like -170 on exchange in the final 10 minutes before the Worthy fight.
 
People say this every single week, but the worst card that was truly bad for betting was last week. This is a cake walk in comparison.

Honestly, Park and Robertson were the easiest, safest money I've made in a while. I got spooked by the betting thread and went half of what I wanted to, but I should have been all in. I don't mean to be a dick, but I had the Krause fight called pretty well, too, and wish I had played it. Even the Andrade fight looks like an easy call in hindsight and you're the reason I woke up early and hedged the day of the event; saved me money. I don't have that feeling about any of these fights except maybe Ankalaev. I'm planning on playing everything small and hedging a lot.

I thought Volkov was a good play, but after watching more tape I think Harris is the fastest puncher he's faced and I don't like 265 in general; Harris is the value side. I used to like Whittaker, but it looks like he's training with Nogueira so I guess he wants to grapple to negate the power shots and test the cardio? His instagram has him training head kicks so maybe I'll still play him. I think the only line that is still undervalued is Kenney.
 
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Film question, who was the best wrestler Gaethje faced? And who was the best American wrestler Khabib had to deal with? Was it Tibau or who gave him issues back in 2012?
Wasn't Eddie Alvarez the best wrestler Justin faced?
 
Anyone think that Khabib losing his father will effect him mentally at all? You can tell in his interviews he gets irritated when people ask him about which is understandable, but it definitely appears that it is weighing on his mind.
 
Anyone think that Khabib losing his father will effect him mentally at all? You can tell in his interviews he gets irritated when people ask him about which is understandable, but it definitely appears that it is weighing on his mind.
I don't think it'll play a significant role. Khabib looks good to go, he gets angry at those questions cause the answer is pretty obvious, he misses his dad like anyone else would. If he loses, abdulmanap's passing will definitely be brought up by the media tho.
 
To everyone using Khabib vs Tibau fight as a reference that fight was over 8 years ago. Way too long ago to use to use as a reliable comparison or reference point to how he will do against Justin. Justin won’t be able to stop the take down, Khabib will mix in punches and chain them into take downs rather that leech onto Justin’s leg and get stuffed.
 
Anyone think that Khabib losing his father will effect him mentally at all? You can tell in his interviews he gets irritated when people ask him about which is understandable, but it definitely appears that it is weighing on his mind.

Buster Douglas’ mum passed a few weeks before his fight with Tyson and look what happened there. He was said to be training like a man possessed and with intense focus. Khabib does not seem like the type to crumble rather he seems the type to push even harder. I don’t think it will affect his performance negatively
 
Whittaker got down to +104 on Fanduel. I jumped on that with a unit, still trying to figure out what to do this card. Probably gonna parlay a lot as I have a lot of free bets built up in one book. Will have Whitt in quite a few of those
 
To everyone using Khabib vs Tibau fight as a reference that fight was over 8 years ago. Way too long ago to use to use as a reliable comparison or reference point to how he will do against Justin. Justin won’t be able to stop the take down, Khabib will mix in punches and chain them into take downs rather that leech onto Justin’s leg and get stuffed.

Yeah I wasn't using that as a comparison. Was pointing out the Tibau to basically say OTHER than that, has anyone ever given his wrestling even the slightest problem? But then realizing there weren't any other acclaimed pure wrestlers he's gone against. Just guys that, until they met khabib, seemed to have good enough TDD to be able to use their striking like a Porier
 
Whittaker at evens is mind blowing to me. Nothing in the Till fight showed that he is done or declining. He actually looked very sharp and quick. He took a hellbow and recovered. So many people seem convinced that Cannonier is going to wreck him (even Izzy) and I just don't see it.

Branch, at that stage of his career, was a bum. Same for Anderson. Hermansson is a lanky grappler.

None of these are even close to Whittaker's level.
You don't look at what level Cannonier is, XociDe, you have to look at the match-up at hand. Which is the following:
My simplistic read on Whittaker's fights is he is looking good against grapplers/wrestlers. Dedicated strikers present big problems for him. Remember the struggle against the inconsistent Uriah Hall? Wonderboy whooped him. Overall - people who have deep striking arsenal and/or are not afraid to stand up with him. Cannonier may be not the precise sniper Izzy or Wonderboy are, but he has horsepower and is fearless in this weighclass. This is fucking dangerous fight for Rob in my humble opinion. Rob should wrestlefuck him, if he stands I honestly don't see him winning.
like Tuivasa at dog odds. Struve should not be favourite against most HW's. Don't really rate Tai's fight game but the Struve/Rothwell fight was embarassing, Struve will fold quick if 1 lands
Yeah, he will fold, but from somebody with a bit more precise punches and who could throw hard past the 2 minute mark of the 1st round. I don't rate Tai at all. He is terrible. He has a couple of wild bursts in him, and that's it, if Struve manages to not get touched clean for two minutes, he should roll through. For real this should be a gimme fight for Struve, Tuivasa is so clueless on the ground, even for a heavyweight standard his grappling is bad. Struve's wrestling is bad, but I think a bodylock should be all that he needs to take Tai down. The fact that this is pick em fight is strange to me, but what do I know, right?
Feeling a lot of dogs this event too.

I think Cannonier is being under rated here with the money coming in on Whittaker. Cannon only has 4 losses and only one of them is 'bad'. Losing to Jan, Reyes and Glover there should be no shame, the champ, the guy who beat Jon Jones and Glover is weeks away from a title elimination bout himself.

Is Rob really going to threaten him with his power? He's went rounds with much bigger hitters. Rob is way more shop worn and injury prone, been in way more battles to the death and now he's been rocked, dropped or finished in all of his fights in the past 2/3 years too.

I see Cannonier's pressure style as much more intensity rather than a threat of chaos.

With Costa you get backed up quickly and he just unloads fury at you. Cannonier slowly walks you backwards until you feel like you have no space left to move and then he waits with his finger on the trigger, and every time he shoots he aims to kill.

A win over the Anderson Silva he beat may not be amazing but the same year Izzy was going to a decision with him and lost a round along the way. DC didn't finish Silva, Brunson lost to him. Modern era Silva has been finished 3 twice, 2 times by the Chris and in weird circumstances, and once by Cannonier, a legit leg kick KO.

Even the Hermanson win, people don't rate it but Hermanson is top 3, will be in line for a title shot with a win and again he's only been KO'ed by one other person and that was Santos.

Robert Whittaker is going to get KO'ed.

Darren Till is a bum.
Agree with this whole post, 2020Tracked, except that Till is a bum.

I don't have a lot of thoughts about the main event, except that now is the time when Khabib is a legit mma star. And in all these years I've noticed one thing happening often - when you finally move the needle (by yourself), when you've managed to convert all the doubters, you seem unbeatable and godlike, you get that awakward opponent, who has been preparing himself all his life for this very moment - to shit in your pie.

I've been saying it a lot on the sherdog forums, one simply cannot beat Khabib by finish. The only way is to get a decision from him. He is a combo of too wary, too athletic and too durable to get finished (on the ground or on feet). Either by accumulation, or by one punch. I simply cannot see it. The only realistic path is to win a decision. Gaethje's camp is smart, I think they know this is the way and will go for it, I think he knows it too. Steady pressure (not too wild), making Khabib be in on his back foot the whole fight is the name of the game. I think Justin can pull it off. Will he? Fuck if I know. But he has the mentality to do it. All other opponents of Khabib either just freak out and fight uncharacteristically, or simly doesn't have the toolkit needed. Justin seems to have the tools and the mentality.
The great fighters are great for a reason. They are world class in their specialty, they are at least serviceable at everything else and the things that ties the package are supreme athleticism, durability and smarts. Khabib has all of these.

You damn right be sure Khabib is not getting finished if he loses. He is so fast and awakward to hit clean, defensively minded and so durable both cardiowise and in punch resistanse that it will be near impossible for a 155 man to finish him. I've said it numerous times when "how to beat Khabib" topic comes up, but mofos think I am out of my mind. I think I am very logical and I use real life proofs to make my point. The only chance is to work a smart gameplan, be 100% mentally and physically prepared and aim for a crafty decision win. Be prepared to win by a slim margin, tho. Khabib will be there till the last second and will try his hardest to win.

Get it though your heads, The Eagle can't be finished!!!! To finish someone means two things - to tire him out, so take him out when he is vulnerable. So... you have to be a lot more durable than him. Or to time him exceptionally well with amazing shot. Because @155 dudes are not hitting that hard and to KO someone it takes landing the perfect shot. It's a lottery ticket level of gameplan. Fucking lame-ass.
 
Fair enough did not know that about Buster Douglas so thanks for the info, current lines I kind of like Struve at -110 and ITD at +187. Tai has just looked terrible his last 3 fights, he can get a pass against Dos Santos and Ivanov those are tough outs. His showing against Sergey was alarming, the way he just taken down so easily and submitted without much of a fight. I can easily see Struve weathering the early storm and taking over after he tires, I get that Struve isn't on a great streak either but those low blows really cost him against Rothwell. Tai is saying all the right things about getting some time in at AKA but just can trust him at this point.
 
Khabib is great and obviously it’s hard to see him lose but I think Justin presents plenty of problems. Khabibs striking has def improved but what if he cannot get justin down? I think then justin can win the standup exchanges and either catch him or win by points. Obviously the other side of this is if Khabib does as he always does and gets the takedown controls it on the ground and gets a sub but like others have pointed out Justin has the mentality here not to fold under the pressure of fighting this animal. I think Justin is very live and the odds don’t really reflect that. I’m going to hold out to hopefully get a +300 closer to fight time.
 
You don't look at what level Cannonier is, XociDe, you have to look at the match-up at hand. Which is the following:
My simplistic read on Whittaker's fights is he is looking good against grapplers/wrestlers. Dedicated strikers present big problems for him. Remember the struggle against the inconsistent Uriah Hall? Wonderboy whooped him. Overall - people who have deep striking arsenal and/or are not afraid to stand up with him. Cannonier may be not the precise sniper Izzy or Wonderboy are, but he has horsepower and is fearless in this weighclass. This is fucking dangerous fight for Rob in my humble opinion. Rob should wrestlefuck him, if he stands I honestly don't see him winning.

Cannonier's striking reminds me of Romero or Brunson a lot more than Izzy or even Hall. And the Wonderboy fight was 6 years ago, way before his championship run. Cannonier might be fearless, but if Rob has the edge in the technical striking he generally wins.
 
Anyone think that Khabib losing his father will effect him mentally at all? You can tell in his interviews he gets irritated when people ask him about which is understandable, but it definitely appears that it is weighing on his mind.

I believe we've only seen 2 guys from that camp fight since Abdulmanaps passing, Tukhugov and Ulanbekov, both looked very underwhelming compared to prior tape. Not putting much weight into it but it's something.
 
Should Alex Oliveira be higher than -122? He has much more high-level experience than Shavkat.
 
[QUOTE="ianj98, post: 162262847, member] He has much more high-level experience than Shavkat.[/QUOTE]

Well, yeah
 
Everyone has a take on the main event and here is my 2c:

While I respect those taking a shot and betting Justin at great dog odds I really don't think Justin has much for Khabib. Khabib is a technician and has honed his craft over many years. Every hand position and movement is practiced and strategic.

Justin on the other hand is really just a high level brawler (that might be selling him short but thats my honest opinion). It wasn't long ago that he suffered back to back KO/TKO losses to Poirier and Alvarez. Justin did return much better vs. Ferguson and seemed to reinvent his style to an extent. Even taking into consideration Justin's improvements and becoming Gaethje 2.0 I still don't think he has much for Khabib.

The 2 things Justin likes to do most will get him taken down. Those 2 things are throwing leg kicks and walking forward with the shell guard. Throwing a leg kick makes one very susceptible to getting take down. Being a pressure fighter, which Justin is also opens one to being taken down. Therefore, I really don't see how Justin approaches this fight without being on his back for long periods at a time. Can Justin get up once he is taken down? Unlikely, in my opinion.

Justin basically has 30 seconds to a minute (if he is lucky) at the beginning of each round to inflict max damage while standing before he ends up on his back. In a nutshell, I would say Justin has a punchers chance. Justin is a sloppy and reckless fighter when compared to Khabib's polished grappling skillset.

The main chance I see for Justin is to land something big at the beginning of round 3,4 or 5 when both guys are tired and forced to start standing.

Good luck to Justin. I love the guy but I think he ends up on bottom getting manhandled over 5 rounds.
 
omg, Im not going to jinx anything, but wtf Michael Chandler. I have a weird feeling Khabib tests positive, and ufc protects another champion, again, by having 2 strong contenders eliminate 1 contender, while taking damage themselves, making it easier for the champ.
 
Everyone has a take on the main event and here is my 2c:

While I respect those taking a shot and betting Justin at great dog odds I really don't think Justin has much for Khabib. Khabib is a technician and has honed his craft over many years. Every hand position and movement is practiced and strategic.

Justin on the other hand is really just a high level brawler (that might be selling him short but thats my honest opinion). It wasn't long ago that he suffered back to back KO/TKO losses to Poirier and Alvarez. Justin did return much better vs. Ferguson and seemed to reinvent his style to an extent. Even taking into consideration Justin's improvements and becoming Gaethje 2.0 I still don't think he has much for Khabib.

The 2 things Justin likes to do most will get him taken down. Those 2 things are throwing leg kicks and walking forward with the shell guard. Throwing a leg kick makes one very susceptible to getting take down. Being a pressure fighter, which Justin is also opens one to being taken down. Therefore, I really don't see how Justin approaches this fight without being on his back for long periods at a time. Can Justin get up once he is taken down? Unlikely, in my opinion.

Justin basically has 30 seconds to a minute (if he is lucky) at the beginning of each round to inflict max damage while standing before he ends up on his back. In a nutshell, I would say Justin has a punchers chance. Justin is a sloppy and reckless fighter when compared to Khabib's polished grappling skillset.

The main chance I see for Justin is to land something big at the beginning of round 3,4 or 5 when both guys are tired and forced to start standing.

Good luck to Justin. I love the guy but I think he ends up on bottom getting manhandled over 5 rounds.

You clearly have been being spoon fed the bs that b schaub spews on a daily basis. Justing has good wrestling tdd, power, technique, wrestling himself, subs himself, and khabib doesnt have ko power. Khabib tires mid 3rd, Jusin catches him, tkos him, and new.
 
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