UFC 211 - Stipe vs JDS II - Dallas

[MMA Gambling Expert]

The Whittaker/Jacare comparison is such a reach its not even funny. No one has been able to take Whittaker down in a pretty long time. Masvidal's been taken down by the likes of Larkin, Pearson, Bendo, and Mutante lol

None of those guys kept him down though, all those fighters are better athletes than Maia and they all have different wrestling games. And Mutante actaully has a decent power double when he's fresh.

I just don't see Maia having much success and I do think this looks a lot like Souza vs Whittaker. I really do think Masvidal makes it look easy.

 

[MMA Gambling Expert]

Smh 0-2 last event and now you're gonna go 0-3? You #believethehype and now it will lead to your #downfall

8-5-1 on my expert underdog plays, yes I took an L last event, it is what is it, it happens but I'm still the underdog king and I'll prove it again. No one plays these dogs like myself, you know that. Edgy underdog plays is what I'm known for and that is what you will get.

 

[iGnP]

None of those guys kept him down though, all those fighters are better athletes than Maia and they all have different wrestling games. And Mutante actaully has a decent power double when he's fresh.

I just don't see Maia having much success and I do think this looks a lot like Souza vs Whittaker. I really do think Masvidal makes it look easy.

When has being a subpar athlete stopped maia from taking others down in the WW division? and how many guys have been able to get back up when he takes them down?

i think your bias towards Masvidal isnt allowing you to look at this fight objectively, much like your opinion on Diego/Iaquinta ending itd last event. I dont think Maia is a lock or anything like that (i havent bet that fight yet for what its worth; not even sure who i favor at these odds). but i seriously think you're underestimating what he can do

 

[mkess101]

When has being a subpar athlete stopped maia from taking others down in the WW division? and how many guys have been able to get back up when he takes them down?

i think your bias towards Masvidal isnt allowing you to look at this fight objectively, much like your opinion on Diego/Iaquinta ending itd last event. I dont think Maia is a lock or anything like that (i havent bet that fight yet for what its worth; not even sure who i favor at these odds). but i seriously think you're underestimating what he can do

Maia isn't a "subpar" athlete either. You don't do what he's done in both MMA and the grappling world being a "subpar" athlete. That is a completely ridiculous thing to even say imo. Obviously Maia is a skilled grappling technician and doesn't rely on athleticism as much as some guys, but that's a far cry from being a "subpar" athlete.

 

[MMA Gambling Expert]

Maia isn't a "subpar" athlete either. You don't do what he's done in both MMA and the grappling world being a "subpar" athlete. That is a completely ridiculous thing to even say imo. Obviously Maia is a skilled grappling technician and doesn't rely on athleticism as much as some guys, but that's a far cry from being a "subpar" athlete.

Maia is a subpar athlete in the world of elite athletes though. Probably the worst athlete in the UFC WW division top 10.

 

[Antagonist88]

Maia is a subpar athlete in the world of elite athletes though. Probably the worst athlete in the UFC WW division top 10.

And Masvidal is probably the worst grappler in the WW top 10 in a world of elite grapplers. Probably ahead of Wonderboy actually, but you get the point. Feels like you're grasping and latching onto straws that aren't extremely relevant

 

[mkess101]

Maia is a subpar athlete in the world of elite athletes though. Probably the worst athlete in the UFC WW division top 10.

Based on what parameters? You have to realize that while there may be a somewhat generally accepted view of what a "good athlete" is, there is still a lot of subjectivity. Especially when it comes to how it applies to a specific sport like MMA. For example, here's a gif of one of the guys more generally accepted as being an elite athlete even in the world of elite athletes:

He looks like an uncoordinated goof who can't jump. Yet he ragdolls olympic wrestlers like they are children.

I'm not sure if/how much you've competed in grappling, but here's what I can tell you in terms of athleticism vis a vis someone like Maia: he holds his own athletically just fine with these other elite athletes. I am not a world class athlete, nor was I ever. But I was VERY above average at one point (I am 40 and for my age still athletic but it's a whole different story now). I played college football. I competed in some grappling tourneys against guys I guarantee I could run faster and jump higher than by far. And probably put up more in the weight room by a good margin too. But when it came to functional strength as applied to grappling, the specific fast twitch needed to hit some of the transitions, etc. etc. etc. they were more "athletic" than I was.

Anyway, none of this means Maia beats Mas. Not what I'm saying. But Maia's MMA athleticism is just fine.

 

[King_Brown]

This gif is shitty example tho. No one can jump high in jeans.

There is a way to measure athleticism. Put two guys (with same size parameters)run 100meters or lift weights without zero training backround. One is better than the other. That's bullshit talent doesn't exist. One has to do extra training to catch the other one. Different people have different talents.

 

[King_Brown]

I do agree with Gambling expert that Maia is a subpar athlete. Just look at his speed, movements, strength, composure etc. He just beats people with pure technique. Technique and good fight IQ beats athleticism. If both fighters are equally skilled then usually a better athlete wins.

 

[mkess101]

This gif is shitty example tho. No one can jump high in jeans.

There is a way to measure athleticism. Put two guys (with same size parameters)run 100meters or lift weights without zero training backround. One is better than the other. That's bullshit talent doesn't exist. One has to do extra training to catch the other one. Different people have different talents.

He is a 6'5" world class athlete. At my best athletically I was a small school 6'2" college football player and I could dunk in jeans easily. The gif is extremely relevant. Jones (who again, makes even elite, world class athletes look awful) looks about as unathletic as possible in that gif.

Why is 100m the magic distance? Why not 1000m? Or 5 miles? Is endurance considered athleticism? What lifts if you are talking about the weight room? What if one guy puts up more on bench and squat but the other can dead lift more?

"Different people have different talents" is true, I agree with that. And the term "athleticism" is very broad and subjective.

 

[mkess101]

I do agree with Gambling expert that Maia is a subpar athlete. Just look at his speed, movements, strength, composure etc. He just beats people with pure technique. Technique and good fight IQ beats athleticism. If both fighters are equally skilled then usually a better athlete wins.

His functional strength is beyond good. His technique is obviously amazing, but if he was so much worse athletically than these guys it wouldn't matter. This isn't UFC 1 with Royce tapping a bunch of guys who've never even heard of jiu jitsu. All of these guys are constantly training grappling too. Even with better technique, if you are that much worse athletically you won't have his kind of success at that level. It just won't happen.

 

[King_Brown]

Did you expect Jones to dunk that basketball in his first try? Who knows maybe he didnt give 100% of himself here?You don't know. Maybe when camera went off he actually did much better? You wanna say you didn't practice at all and dunked in your first try? I don't believe so.

 

[mkess101]

Did you expect Jones to dunk that basketball in his first try? Who knows maybe he didnt give 100% of himself here?You don't know. Maybe when camera went off he actually did much better? You wanna say you didn't practice at all and dunked in your first try? I don't believe so.

It's not that he didn't dunk it. Watch the gif LOL. He literally gets about 6 inches off the ground.

It's a bigger point. Jones even admitted afterward he can't jump for shit. That he's uncoordinated when it comes to most sports. He's talked about the things his brothers did in football and that he just could never figure that out and do those things. But nobody would argue that all those things mean he isn't an elite athlete right? I sure wouldn't argue that.

 

[King_Brown]

It's not that he didn't dunk it. Watch the gif LOL. He literally gets about 6 inches off the ground.

It's a bigger point. Jones even admitted afterward he can't jump for shit. That he's uncoordinated when it comes to most sports. He's talked about the things his brothers did in football and that he just could never figure that out and do those things. But nobody would argue that all those things mean he isn't an elite athlete right? I sure wouldn't argue that.

Whats your thoughts on Ronda? How can someone with so terrible coordination and akward movements win a UFC belt?

 

[MMA Gambling Expert]

It's not that he didn't dunk it. Watch the gif LOL. He literally gets about 6 inches off the ground.

It's a bigger point. Jones even admitted afterward he can't jump for shit. That he's uncoordinated when it comes to most sports. He's talked about the things his brothers did in football and that he just could never figure that out and do those things. But nobody would argue that all those things mean he isn't an elite athlete right? I sure wouldn't argue that.

I don't think it's very fair to judge someones athleticism based on a gif like that. No ones doubting that Jones is an elite athlete. Can't really say the same for Maia, he turns 40 this year, he's way past his athletic prime and he was never a great athlete to begin with.

Maia is not explosive, he's slow and he has bad conditioning. If you put the WW division through an NFL combine, I think Maia would rank very poorly.

Maia has gotten by because of his elite grappling and not much else.

 

[weedreference]

I feel you dude but Eddie does love that grind against the cage shit

I doubt he will want to waste the energy taking Poirier down in the first 1.5 rounds... no one has succeeded in the past. It's not as easy as "Ok, I'm gonna go grind this guy.... go!". It's tough to get your hands on dudes when you're in there. You can do it when you're facing lanky strikers with no movement like Pettis, but against a damn good MMA grappler who is stocky and quick for the division, it's tough.

 

[mkess101]

Whats your thoughts on Ronda? How can someone with so terrible coordination and akward movements win a UFC belt?

WMMA. Everything is relative. Ronda took advantage of the fact WMMA was in its infancy to dominate.

She won a silver medal in the olympics in judo. I honestly have no clue how competitive that sport is for women, but relatively speaking I guess she was plenty athletic enough to have some success in WMMA right?

I guess I'm not sure of your argument here? You think how high someone can or can't jump isn't relevant to speaking about their athleticism? Maybe I'm misinterpreting your argument here, not sure.

 

[King_Brown]

I don't think it's very fair to judge someones athleticism based on a gif like that. No ones doubting that Jones is an elite athlete. Can't really say the same for Maia, he turns 40 this year, he's way past his athletic prime and he was never a great athlete to begin with.

Maia is not explosive, he's slow and he has bad conditioning. If you bet the WW division through an NFL combine, I think Maia would rank very poorly.

Maia has gotten by because of his elite grappling and not much else.

I agree but don't underestimate Maia's conditioning. Grappling is the most tiring aspect of MMA and that's what Maia does. His cardio has improved. He can grapple 2-3 rounds for sure before starts going for sloppy TD's.

 

[mkess101]

I don't think it's very fair to judge someones athleticism based on a gif like that. No ones doubting that Jones is an elite athlete. Can't really say the same for Maia, he turns 40 this year, he's way past his athletic prime and he was never a great athlete to begin with.

Maia is not explosive, he's slow and he has bad conditioning. If you put the WW division through an NFL combine, I think Maia would rank very poorly.

Maia has gotten by because of his elite grappling and not much else.

But Jones himself has said he can't jump or run all that fast. Two things right at the top of the list when it comes to NFL combine (since you arbitrarily chose that as the determinant as to what is "athletic").

"Elite grappling" means you need athletic ability. At the level he's competing at, you don't win just on technique if the other guys are that much better athletes than you are. Again, this isn't UFC 1 where Dan Severn had no damn clue what a triangle choke is. Everyone trains grappling now and knows what bjj is.

 

[MMA Gambling Expert]

I agree but don't underestimate Maia's conditioning. Grappling is the most tiring aspect of MMA and that's what Maia does. His cardio has improved. He can grapple 2-3 rounds for sure before starts going for sloppy TD's.

He gassed hard vs Rory when he couldn't get TD's, gassed vs La Flare hard as well. His conditioning is not great, Masvidal will turn him into a panic wrestler and Maia will gas hard. You know Masvidal is gonna attack the body as well.