UFC 207 - Nunes vs Rousey - Vegas

[Buddy Brown]

lost so much respect for anik/florian podcast withe luca appearance this week. everything that dude says is a complete lie. he "spends every waking minute watching tape, learning which specific strikes fighters use and then analyzes how the opponent deals with each type" -- yet for some reason barely mentions any of that anytime you listen to his 'tout'. and he "was always good with numbers so he figured he'd try his hand at mma betting, and in the first event, he won MORE MONEY IN ONE EVENT THAN HE WOULD HAVE MADE IN A FULL YEAR AT HIS FULL TIME JOB"

...jesus christ.

"oh yea i'll move to LA maybe.. maybe february.. maybe march.. i'm just so busy" -- if i was moving from my lifetime home of minnesota for 25+ years or whatever ... if i was going to move to LA, i'd have a little more certainty about the possibility. i wouldn't be "trying to squeeze the move in in a couple months."

i know this isn't too relevant to ufc 207. but people bring luca and his picks up all the time. i just couldn't contain myself. i sincerely hope none of you pay this lying crook a dime.

That is so gross. You'd think they'd research that lying fraud before advertising him on such a big platform. When you Google his name there's literally a huge reddit thread that shows up on the first page talking about his past of scamming and threatening people. Not listening to that podcast anymore.

 

[Joseph Budden]

I think he means that Tim couldn't do it, but that's a moot point because that's not his game and he'd never even try.

There's skill involved for sure, but the size edge was definitely a factor too.

Right but hes talking about it not taking skill cause of size advantage and what not. Thats just wrong. Its not easy controlling any high level wrestler on the fence. Many WWs would fail to do what BC did

 

[EzFlyer]

The late $ just poured in on Mayday vs Lineker. We got Lineker at dog odds just before the fight. Just one fight, I'm trying to think of big line movement late on other fights and how it turned out.

koreshkov on two occasions got SMAAAAAAAAAAAAASHED at the books, i think lima fight and maybe one of his next ones, should be easy to look up

 

[cCrown]

Good interview. Loved the bit about positivity to the point of ignorance. Cruz is a sharp dude.

 

[mkess101]

Right but hes talking about it not taking skill cause of size advantage and what not. Thats just wrong. Its not easy controlling any high level wrestler on the fence. Many WWs would fail to do what BC did

Yeah it's a combination of the two for sure. Plus something (even before the rib injury) looked kinda off with Brooks that night imo. Now, that could have to do with what Cowboy was getting accomplished, I don't want to downplay the win. But keep in mind too that Cowboy most likely stopped cutting pretty damn early (or barely tried at all) given that he weighed in at 161.5 for that LW fight. Brooks has to cut, so it's very possible that Cowboy missing weight so badly gave him a very unfair cardio edge in the fight (to go along with his size advantage).

 

[Buddy Brown]

Good interview. Loved the bit about positivity to the point of ignorance. Cruz is a sharp dude.

He said he had no injuries during camp for the first time since the Mizugaki fight. Confidence increase Cruz.

 

[Joseph Budden]

Yeah it's a combination of the two for sure. Plus something (even before the rib injury) looked kinda off with Brooks that night imo. Now, that could have to do with what Cowboy was getting accomplished, I don't want to downplay the win. But keep in mind too that Cowboy most likely stopped cutting pretty damn early (or barely tried at all) given that he weighed in at 161.5 for that LW fight. Brooks has to cut, so it's very possible that Cowboy missing weight so badly gave him a very unfair cardio edge in the fight (to go along with his size advantage).

I think what was off with Brooks is no one has ever come close to matching him in the clinch like BC did.

I get it, Cowboy was bigger. But thats why i'm saying if you think that takes away all his skill for some reason, I can name plenty of WWs who wouldn't have come close to doing that good in the clinch with Brooks

 

[mkess101]

koreshkov on two occasions got SMAAAAAAAAAAAAASHED at the books, i think lima fight and maybe one of his next ones, should be easy to look up

This might not show the entire time frame, so not sure if it's a real reflection on how much $ came in on Koreshkov. But if it's right it shows only slight movement.

https://www.bestfightodds.com/events/bellator-164-koreshkov-vs-lima-1180

 

[ivanilich]

Cowboy's coach to a Brazilian outlet: "the gameplan is to wrestle Means against the fence and try to take him down or at least make him carry our weight to tire his arms".

 

[mkess101]

I think what was off with Brooks is no one has ever come close to matching him in the clinch like BC did.

I get it, Cowboy was bigger. But thats why i'm saying if you think that takes away all his skill for some reason, I can name plenty of WWs who wouldn't have come close to doing that good in the clinch with Brooks

Right but again the clinch is often a position where attrition comes into play. Who has the cardio and will to endure the constant fighting for position over the first half of a fight and then have something left for the second half (in fights where they are grinding clinch-fests against the cage). You have one guy who dehydrated himself to make weight, and the other who's naturally bigger AND who just said "F it" and missed weight by a bunch. That's a pretty big deal. Especially given that Brooks was most likely ahead on the cards after 2 rounds (at absolute WORST even but very likely up on at least 1 or 2 judges cards).

 

[Sham5916910]

Cowboy's coach to a Brazilian outlet: "the gameplan is to wrestle Means against the fence and try to take him down or at least make him carry our weight to tire his arms".

Exactly what i and a few others all along have said the gameplan will be. Lets do this means

 

[Sham5916910]

Right but again the clinch is often a position where attrition comes into play. Who has the cardio and will to endure the constant fighting for position over the first half of a fight and then have something left for the second half (in fights where they are grinding clinch-fests against the cage). You have one guy who dehydrated himself to make weight, and the other who's naturally bigger AND who just said "F it" and missed weight by a bunch. That's a pretty big deal. Especially given that Brooks was most likely ahead on the cards after 2 rounds (at absolute WORST even but very likely up on at least 1 or 2 judges cards).

Spot on. Cowboy is a cheating fuck. He struggled in both ww fights and one was against a bum. If he bullies means and wrestlefucks him for 3 rounds i will applaud him. I just dont see it happening especially against someone whos uber dangerous at close range and bigger than cowboy who relies on bullying

 

[Joseph Budden]

Right but again the clinch is often a position where attrition comes into play. Who has the cardio and will to endure the constant fighting for position over the first half of a fight and then have something left for the second half (in fights where they are grinding clinch-fests against the cage). You have one guy who dehydrated himself to make weight, and the other who's naturally bigger AND who just said "F it" and missed weight by a bunch. That's a pretty big deal. Especially given that Brooks was most likely ahead on the cards after 2 rounds (at absolute WORST even but very likely up on at least 1 or 2 judges cards).

That comes into play if you have the skills to keep it in the clinch. There are a fuckton of WWs that Will Brooks would just shrug off or reverse if they tried to hold him on the fence.

I implore anyone who thinks BC's success in that spot was purely cause of size to go to a wrestling class, find someone skilled who weighs 20 lbs less than you, and good luck just muscling them around without any skill

 

[mkess101]

Spot on. Cowboy is a cheating fuck. He struggled in both ww fights and one was against a bum. If he bullies means and wrestlefucks him for 3 rounds i will applaud him. I just dont see it happening especially against someone whos uber dangerous at close range and bigger than cowboy who relies on bullying

Yeah missing weight by a bunch is such a clusterfuck. The other guy wants to fight because...well...it's how he gets paid. But when a guy misses by so much you just know he stopped trying way early when he knew he'd never make it. Which gives him such a huge edge in fights that play out like Cowboy/Brooks did. If it's a quick finish it probably doesn't matter, but fights like that...it's such an advantage.

 

[mkess101]

That comes into play if you have the skills to keep it in the clinch. There are a fuckton of WWs that Will Brooks would just shrug off or reverse if they tried to hold him on the fence.

I implore anyone who thinks BC's success in that spot was purely cause of size to go to a wrestling class, find someone skilled who weighs 20 lbs less than you, and good luck just muscling them around without any skill

Again, there's skill involved yes. No question.

But if he kills himself to make weight (or at least tries and gets close) that fight very likely plays out differently. Brooks had to make weight, he dehydrates himself. Wins the first 2 rounds (most likely), then gets tooled in the 3rd. To think Cowboy not having to dehydrate himself and go through all of that didn't potentially affect the outcome...c'mon. And had he lost, we wouldn't be talking at all about how he managed to gain and keep the clinch at times during the fight and how amazing his grappling looked. We'd be maybe saying "Well, as the bigger guy he still did okay in the clinch and the grappling. Not enough, but he didn't get owned at least." Instead, he missed weight by a bunch and then won so the narrative changes into how much skill he showed to pull off the W.

No way was size the only factor. There was skill, yes. His grappling has improved. The big miss on the weight cut and all that goes with it played a big factor too though.

 

[Sham5916910]

Budden is cos he held a murican wrestler against the fence that you think bc is the ufc's answer to karelin?

 

[Joseph Budden]

Again, there's skill involved yes. No question.

But if he kills himself to make weight (or at least tries and gets close) that fight very likely plays out differently. Brooks had to make weight, he dehydrates himself. Wins the first 2 rounds (most likely), then gets tooled in the 3rd. To think Cowboy not having to dehydrate himself and go through all of that didn't potentially affect the outcome...c'mon. And had he lost, we wouldn't be talking at all about how he managed to gain and keep the clinch at times during the fight and how amazing his grappling looked. We'd be maybe saying "Well, as the bigger guy he still did okay in the clinch and the grappling. Not enough, but he didn't get owned at least." Instead, he missed weight by a bunch and then won so the narrative changes into how much skill he showed to pull off the W.

No way was size the only factor. There was skill, yes. His grappling has improved. The big miss on the weight cut and all that goes with it played a big factor too though.

Thats speculation though. We will never know if it would or wouldn't. But what I do know for sure is BC displayed skills in the clinch, size advantage or not. You're doing yourself a disservice if you think to yourself 'without that size advantage, BC sucks and loses' cause its simply not true (as far as sucking) and the other part is pure speculation

 

[Sham5916910]

Cowboy not being at att has to affect his wrestling having to do camp in brazil

 

[Joseph Budden]

Budden is cos he held a murican wrestler against the fence that you think bc is the ufc's answer to karelin?

If I end up on BC decision and he hugs Means for 15 mins it would be my honor to make him an honorary American

 

[Joseph Budden]

Cowboy not being at att has to affect his wrestling having to do camp in brazil

Does anyone know how much time he actually spent at ATT though? The dude is so active, especially last year, idk how he finds time to train other places