UFC 185 was awesome, let's talk about it

[a guy]

Roy Nelson vs Alistair Overeem was an entertaining fight. Nelson ate some ridiculous knees for dinner and mostly got beat up, but still dropped Overeem at the end of the third. Matt Brown vs Johnny Hendricks and Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Carla Esparza were essentially two striker vs grappler matchups with completely opposite results. In the main event, dos Anjos put a 25 minute ass whooping on Pettis with his intelligent pressure, relentless cage cutting, sharp boxing, strong kicking, heavy wrestling and some serious toughness. Also of note are "the last guy to beat McGoat" winning by first round knockout with a head kick and body shots, Little Pettis trading hooks and getting knocked out in the second, Pearson rolling under a right to trade hooks with Stout and knock him out, and olympic gold medalist Henry Cejudo beating up the last guy to get beat up by Mighty Mouse.

It was a great night of fights with a ton of interesting topics for technical discussion. What did you guys think?

 

[Sano]

Very good card.

Overeem fought like he needs to fight apparently. He is strong as an oxe, very athletic and has some of the best knees in MMA, but he lacks defense, toughness and chin. He should stick to an in and out style and use his kicks more. He just can't stay in the pocket with a hitter and not get dropped. Nelson is seriously one of the toughest men alive. I can't believe the beatings that man take.

JJ did well, I was surprised by her TDD. Carla crumbled when she struggled. She seemed off, but JJ is legit.

I really liked RDA. What he did so well, from a striking standpoint, was that even though he loaded up on some shots, he did not overextend himself. He sat back on most of his punches and that gave him the ability to adjust. A lot of Brazilian fighters seem to throw themselves around the cage with lunging haymakers, and RDA didn't do that at all. He was on point. Pressued well, mixed it up, had a solid lead, good composure and posture, good condition. Very, very impressed.

 

[EndlessCritic]

duffy showed some of the crispest striking on the card.

 

[Borass]

Fantastic event ! Really impressed by Nelson resistance and Dos Anjos rythm... ( how can he keep this during 5 rounds... Has he got 3 hearts ?? ) Fights were very interesting and technical !

 

[TheBrownRanger]

And people were saying RDA vs Pettis was a mismatch. I'm glad RDA is champion now, he's exciting, fights often. And seems like a really nice guy. Now if Cain and Weidman can lose their belts, that would be great

 

[roventu]

Rogan during Nelson fight: "Must feel good to kick into his gut, its like kicking a really soft heavy bag" hahaha

Joanna showed some excellent takedown defense, i was more surprised by that bc I knew RDA would give a fight.Interesting to hear she studied under Ernesto Hoost for 2 years (although she doesnt do much low leg kicks).

Reem probably the most exciting fighter to watch, has amazing offense, but any time he could get knocked out so you cant look away for a moment. I was appalled at his defense though (turtle up and stay against cage, or turn back to opponent and run away). I feel like the double elbow guard was actually part of their defense plan lol His knees were sick though. I always thought Reem had some of the best knees

 

[Castro Alves]

And people were saying RDA vs Pettis was a mismatch. I'm glad RDA is champion now, he's exciting, fights often. And seems like a really nice guy. Now if Cain and Weidman can lose their belts, that would be great

It absolutely was, just that Pettis was the outmatched one...

 

[a guy]

Very good card.

Overeem fought like he needs to fight apparently. He is strong as an oxe, very athletic and has some of the best knees in MMA, but he lacks defense, toughness and chin. He should stick to an in and out style and use his kicks more. He just can't stay in the pocket with a hitter and not get dropped. Nelson is seriously one of the toughest men alive. I can't believe the beatings that man take.

JJ did well, I was surprised by her TDD. Carla crumbled when she struggled. She seemed off, but JJ is legit.

I really liked RDA. What he did so well, from a striking standpoint, was that even though he loaded up on some shots, he did not overextend himself. He sat back on most of his punches and that gave him the ability to adjust. A lot of Brazilian fighters seem to throw themselves around the cage with lunging haymakers, and RDA didn't do that at all. He was on point. Pressued well, mixed it up, had a solid lead, good composure and posture, good condition. Very, very impressed.

I'd really like to see Overeem develop his jab to go along with that outfighting style. It would be very useful for him in my opinion. He could use it to manage pace and distance more effectively, making it easier to set up those knees and kicks. Nelson really is tough as hell, but damn does he rely on the other guy walking into his right hand. I was yelling for him to put a left hook behind a throwaway right hand the entire fight. He finally did throw the left and put Overeem down with it, but 2 rounds earlier and he might not have taken such a beating.

I was extremely impressed by her TDD. She did a phenomenal job sprawling on angles. Too many people sprawl straight back, and against someone who chain wrestles like Esparza that just doesn't cut it. Joanna was cutting angles and defending each transition beautifully. She was measured, but still clearly there to kick Esparza's ass. I loved that fight.

Agreed about RDA. He maintains defensive responsibility even when moving forward and attacking. That's what's been missing from previous attempts to bully Pettis. Gil got out of position swinging and ate counters that hurt him, Bendo didn't have much in the way of counters (or offense moving forward) so after defending against the cage Pettis had an easy time backing him up. RDA could walk him down, pull back and make him miss, fire back, stick a jab in his face, counter Pettis' jab, exchange kicks with him(!), duck under his punches to take him down and even came close to tapping him. It was a complete MMA performance by RDA, and one of the most impressive ones I've seen in awhile.

As I said in another thread, he exploited the limitations that have always been there in Pettis' style. Pettis only really attacks well off one angle and with his rear side. He'll put together some combinations with his hands, but they're more to scare the other guy than anything. Pettis has still been able to take out top guys because he can exploit holes in defense with brutal and decisive single shots. He gathers information with his feints well, and has the ridiculous power and speed to change the course of the fight with one shot. But RDA is always gonna be an extremely tough fight for Pettis because he's not gonna give him that one shot. He's gonna stay in Pettis' face, stay composed and work him intelligently. Despite being extremely dangerous, Pettis is honestly a pretty good matchup for RDA because he's not that hard to push backwards, isn't a threat wrestling and isn't gonna walk RDA down. Hopefully Pettis learns a lot from this. It's the kind of fight where he can't say he got caught or it was luck or whatever, he got straight up outclassed.

 

[a guy]

Fantastic event ! Really impressed by Nelson resistance and Dos Anjos rythm... ( how can he keep this during 5 rounds... Has he got 3 hearts ?? ) Fights were very interesting and technical !

Ha, I was amazed at him eating a hard Pettis' kick on the arms then blasting Pettis straight back with one. He was there to fight for all 25 minutes and couldn't be deterred from his systematic pressure. That's 3 hearts and balls for days.

 

[a guy]

And people were saying RDA vs Pettis was a mismatch. I'm glad RDA is champion now, he's exciting, fights often. And seems like a really nice guy. Now if Cain and Weidman can lose their belts, that would be great

I wasn't really on the forums much in the leadup to this fight, but I had no idea RDA was considered a big underdog. I thought he was stylistically the toughest matchup for Pettis so far.

I don't wanna see Weidman and Cain lose their belts, I wanna see them defend them!

 

[a guy]

Rogan during Nelson fight: "Must feel good to kick into his gut, its like kicking a really soft heavy bag" hahaha

Joanna showed some excellent takedown defense, i was more surprised by that bc I knew RDA would give a fight.Interesting to hear she studied under Ernesto Hoost for 2 years (although she doesnt do much low leg kicks).

Reem probably the most exciting fighter to watch, has amazing offense, but any time he could get knocked out so you cant look away for a moment. I was appalled at his defense though (turtle up and stay against cage, or turn back to opponent and run away). I feel like the double elbow guard was actually part of their defense plan lol His knees were sick though. I always thought Reem had some of the best knees

Hahaha I couldn't hear the commentary where I was, that's gold.

I was definitely surprised by how much of a beatdown that fight turned into. Joanna's tdd was extremely technical and fluid, her pressure was controlled but overwhelming and she didn't get tired like a lot of people doing when stuffing so many shots. She did a nice job coming forward low, drawing and countering punches, and cutting off the cage. It must have felt awful to be Esparza. Joanna's gonna haunt her dreams.

 

[clashnat]

I'd really like to see Overeem develop his jab to go along with that outfighting style. It would be very useful for him in my opinion. He could use it to manage pace and distance more effectively, making it easier to set up those knees and kicks. Nelson really is tough as hell, but damn does he rely on the other guy walking into his right hand. I was yelling for him to put a left hook behind a throwaway right hand the entire fight. He finally did throw the left and put Overeem down with it, but 2 rounds earlier and he might not have taken such a beating.

Thats what I was thinking while watching it too, but Alistair has much better hands than he showed yesterday, just based in his fights in PRIDE and his success in K1. I don't know why he barely used them yesterday.
Joe Rogan also mentioned that he won grappling tournaments I think, but in his fight against Werdum in Strikeforce, you would think that he has no ground game at all.

Thats not the general idea of MMA, but Alistair has his own way of thinking I guess. He totally sticks to the game plan from start to finish.

 

[a guy]

Thats what I was thinking while watching it too, but Alistair has much better hands than he showed yesterday, just based in his fights in PRIDE and his success in K1. I don't know why he barely used them yesterday.
Joe Rogan also mentioned that he won grappling tournaments I think, but in his fight against Werdum in Strikeforce, you would think that he has no ground game at all.

Thats not the general idea of MMA, but Alistair has his own way of thinking I guess. He totally sticks to the game plan from start to finish.

I don't know how good his hands are. He's dangerous with them, sure, but he's always been vulnerable using them. I've never seen him try to use them to box around the outside though, and I think he'd be much better if he started doing that. I think Overeem won the ADCC European Trials like 10 years ago. If I remember correctly it was all by guillotine choke too. He's got a lot of wins by submission also, but Werdum is on another level. No sense for Overeem to go anywhere near that guard if he didn't have to. Even if he could handle it, it's just not worth the risk in my opinion. Though he did control Mir on the ground, which is very impressive.

 

[clashnat]

Maybe spend some time with Freddie Roach like Anderson Silva, St. Pierre, Arlovski, etc. ...I would favor Dos Santos if that fight happens.

He threw a sloppy overhand right that got him off balance and got countered by Nelson. Luckily for him Nelson had nothing left in the tank at that point.
Also tried to a jab for a moment, but wasn't really committed as GSP in the Kosheck rematch for instance.

 

[Azam]

I think it had a lot to do with the way Pettis fights. I think that Dos Anjos went about beating Pettis the right way - intelligent pressure but constant. Pettis is a naturally offensive fighter but put him on the back foot & apply pressure - then the gaps which were always there appear.

I think that pressure always put Pettis on the backfoot & following Dos Anjos rather than vice versa and it got him into a fight where he was out of his usual rhythm & comfort zone. It was a kind of Dos Anjos leads Pettis follows - even his timing was way off because of the pressure.


I don't want to sound controversial but I instinctively felt watching that, with about 100% certainty that Dos Anjos was probably on something. I mean Dos Anjos is no Frankie Edgar (cardio/output wise) & at that constant pace - I felt deep down he was definitely on something. People might call me out for saying that - but that's what I honestly felt instinctively watching him fight.

But congrats to him anyway - I've always felt that Pettis's style was more of a competitive style than a martial arts style. The difference being that martial arts styles are by definition consistent - Pettis's style always left him on long lay offs - something a style shouldn't do - a style should always have you in a condition where you can fight wherever and whenever. Anyway I'm rambling....



The Overeem vs Hunt fight ---- I'm not sure what to make of it. I honestly wasn't that impressed by it. I feel that he left himself open at times and dangerously open from a defensive standpoint. I mean he walked into an overhand - I'm surprised he manage to eat two of those, would have put lesser men down.

I liked the way Overeem made good use of his knees though, definitely his go to bread & butter. I'm surprised that Nelson ate so many - I still remember the first solid knee I ate and my God felt like I was going to shit myself - it has to be that gut - extra protection lol.


The Dos Anjos fight though left me feeling a bit uneasy - did anyone else think that he was on something?

 

[Thunderstriker]

Very good card.

Overeem fought like he needs to fight apparently. He is strong as an oxe, very athletic and has some of the best knees in MMA, but he lacks defense, toughness and chin. He should stick to an in and out style and use his kicks more. He just can't stay in the pocket with a hitter and not get dropped. Nelson is seriously one of the toughest men alive. I can't believe the beatings that man take.

JJ did well, I was surprised by her TDD. Carla crumbled when she struggled. She seemed off, but JJ is legit.

I really liked RDA. What he did so well, from a striking standpoint, was that even though he loaded up on some shots, he did not overextend himself. He sat back on most of his punches and that gave him the ability to adjust. A lot of Brazilian fighters seem to throw themselves around the cage with lunging haymakers, and RDA didn't do that at all. He was on point. Pressued well, mixed it up, had a solid lead, good composure and posture, good condition. Very, very impressed.

Overeem lacks defense? Did you see him get pressed against the cage and just block a barrage of punches without getting hurt? Chin. Overeem lacks chin

 

[a guy]

I think it had a lot to do with the way Pettis fights. I think that Dos Anjos went about beating Pettis the right way - intelligent pressure but constant. Pettis is a naturally offensive fighter but put him on the back foot & apply pressure - then the gaps which were always there appear.

I think that pressure always put Pettis on the backfoot & following Dos Anjos rather than vice versa and it got him into a fight where he was out of his usual rhythm & comfort zone. It was a kind of Dos Anjos leads Pettis follows - even his timing was way off because of the pressure.


I don't want to sound controversial but I instinctively felt watching that, with about 100% certainty that Dos Anjos was probably on something. I mean Dos Anjos is no Frankie Edgar (cardio/output wise) & at that constant pace - I felt deep down he was definitely on something. People might call me out for saying that - but that's what I honestly felt instinctively watching him fight.

But congrats to him anyway - I've always felt that Pettis's style was more of a competitive style than a martial arts style. The difference being that martial arts styles are by definition consistent - Pettis's style always left him on long lay offs - something a style shouldn't do - a style should always have you in a condition where you can fight wherever and whenever. Anyway I'm rambling....



The Overeem vs Hunt fight ---- I'm not sure what to make of it. I honestly wasn't that impressed by it. I feel that he left himself open at times and dangerously open from a defensive standpoint. I mean he walked into an overhand - I'm surprised he manage to eat two of those, would have put lesser men down.

I liked the way Overeem made good use of his knees though, definitely his go to bread & butter. I'm surprised that Nelson ate so many - I still remember the first solid knee I ate and my God felt like I was going to shit myself - it has to be that gut - extra protection lol.


The Dos Anjos fight though left me feeling a bit uneasy - did anyone else think that he was on something?

I don't think it matters if dos Anjos was on anything. I mean, Pettis was in there with him the whole time too. He was getting beaten up and worked, but still throwing back the entire time. And there was still some venom in his kicks even in the late rounds. What's he on that let him do that? The only fighter who I'm nearly positive never used anything is BJ Penn, and that's just because of his notoriously poor work ethic. Beyond that, it's part of the game. It's part of all high level sports, and I personally don't care who gets busted and who doesn't. To me, failing a drug test is more indicative of poor planning and discipline than anything else.

Besides, when has RDA's cardio ever looked bad? It's not like he went from gassing in round 1 to that pace for 5 rounds. He was calm, composed and in control the whole fight. That makes it less taxing. His movements were economical, his techniques efficient and his pace calculated. I don't care if he tested positive for every drug on the market after that performance (especially considering a torn MCL), it doesn't take away from the technical and strategic mastery that was on display.

I'm not sure how much Pettis' style is what kept getting him injured. His camp has the highest injury rate of all the top camps--I think the number was guys from that gym pulling out of around 16-17 percent of their fights. That has way more to do with it than him being more competition than martial arts based in my opinion. I mean, remember all the accusations against that camp recently?

Overeem/Hunt was exactly amazing technically, but I thought it was very entertaining. Both guys had some good moments, Nelson showed why he's awesome and why he loses to the top guys, Overeem got to work his style against a very dangerous opponent and fans got a solid fight.

 

[a guy]

Overeem lacks defense? Did you see him get pressed against the cage and just block a barrage of punches without getting hurt? Chin. Overeem lacks chin

He's lucky Nelson wasn't smart enough to attack with his left hand.

 

[PivotPunch]

Hendricks vs Brown wasn stirkers vs grappler since Hendricsk is one of the better/best strikers at WW as well that's also why he won his striking was good enough to match Brown's and his wrestling was 10 times better and combined it made for a pretty sure victory for him.


@ a guy Overeem will never have a sharp jab his boxing has always been his weakness even though it got better during his K-1 days it was always basic. And I don't like his new style not only is it less exciting but Overeem doesn't have the cardio nor chin to do that outfighting style for 5 rounds again any elite HW even Nelson hurt him badly at the end and hit him with a big right earlier in the fight.

I don't get why Overeem changed his style for MMA. Well it#s the style he started with in MMA but he shouldn't fight that way.
With his Dutch style he beat Werdum in Strikeforce and while Werdum has improved even since then he had already become a decent striker at the time and Overeem won despite the fight being ugly and now Werdum is interim champ. Then he left Golden Glory and changed his style for no apparent reason and got knocked out by Bigfoot, changed back to his Dutch style demolished Browne but paced himself badly (not the fault of the Dutch style) and changed back to his MMA style beating Mir but not via stoppage losing to Rothwell and beating Struve but not on the feet.

Overeem fights like he is scared on the feet vs any decent striker the guy won the K-1 GP and his confidence and chin are both shot

 

[PivotPunch]

He's lucky Nelson wasn't smart enough to attack with his left hand.

he was even though it was in the last minute of the fight and when he did it he dropped Overeem. Overeem doesn't have the chin, the stamina nor the general boxing ability to pull off that outfighting style it's painful to watch his confidence and in ring demenour reminds me of David Price since he got stopped by Thompson twice