Turning Away Safely to Turtle and Recovering Guard: a BJJ Tutorial

[HtomSirveaux]

Good stuff. I try to turtle 100% of the time I'm getting passed. Some guys are good enough to stop it, sometimes I can turtle and reguard or cut the corner on a single leg, sometimes I get my back taken or get choked, or create a scramble that may or may not be beneficial. And I'll take those odds over just accepting a flat side control, which for me is probably hardest to escape, along with north south, which is often used to nullify side control escapes.

 

[goatfury]

Great stuff, thanks. I need to work on these a lot. Do you recommend transitioning directly into these after turtling. Or do you take your time and get your bearings?

I would recommend hanging out in turtle. If you're leaving something open, your partner will figure it out and choke you, armlock you, or take your back. Your defense will gradually improve dramatically.

If you turn back to guard in a flash, you won't recognize all the little mistakes you're making.

Now, if we're talking about competition, that's an entirely different animal.

 

[platfox]

It makes the roll much easier if an arm isn't around your waist. As such, one thing to try is grabbing the arm for the Telles roll, and if they pull it back immediately start to roll the other way to re-guard.

Good point about guarding your waist. I forget so many fundamental details unless I read it.

 

[Russky]

Thanks! I rolled with one of our BB yesterday and this helped me to get half guard (could not make enough space for the full guard) once I got my guard passed yesterday.

I still cannot get your Tozi pass. I think my starting position is wrong. I would be nice to have another video on just home position for that pass.

 

[goatfury]

Thanks! I rolled with one of our BB yesterday and this helped me to get half guard (could not make enough space for the full guard) once I got my guard passed yesterday.

I still cannot get your Tozi pass. I think my starting position is wrong. I would be nice to have another video on just home position for that pass.

Glad to hear it about the turtle and recovery! Woo!

I've written five tutorials total on the Tozi pass. Have you seen all of them?

http://revolutionbjj.hubpages.com/hub/ToziWilson-Guard-Pass-a-BJJ-Tutorial-part-1
http://revolutionbjj.hubpages.com/h...he-feet-and-finishing-the-pass-a-BJJ-Tutorial
http://revolutionbjj.hubpages.com/h...-No-Gi-Troubleshooting-Details-a-BJJ-Tutorial
http://revolutionbjj.hubpages.com/h...n-Pass-Details-Part-4-Windshield-Wiper-Finish
http://revolutionbjj.hubpages.com/hub/Ball-and-Chain-Dirtball-Tozi-Pass-Tozi-Pass-Tutorial-Part-5

Let me know!

 

[SummerStriker]

I'm a large person with a < 1 body weight to power ratio. Against people of all sizes, smaller than me (which doesn't necessarily count as much) and with people bigger or stronger, I've never understood the Flamethrower.

I say this with the belief that this is a technical move and that not everyone is equal in the execution of every technique. I wouldn't ask a critical question here if I didn't think there was an answer.

Whenever I'm in the top position and someone tries that sort of movement, I feel like I can stop them from dropping their hips, keeping their shoulders on the ground and ass straight up in the air. At that point, I am left in a position where capitalizing on the position is hard without hurting them, but I don't have to let them complete the roll. Sometimes I can't return them to side mount or turtle, but I could leave them upside down or cram weight down on their neck. The end effect is that I just protect them while they finish the roll and let them have guard.

I don't think the triangle is viable if the top person is intentionally countering the roll by keeping the bottom man suspended. Is there a main idea or part of the technique that lets you drop your hips? Whatever that is, is what I think people must be missing.

 

[goatfury]

I'm a large person with a < 1 body weight to power ratio. Against people of all sizes, smaller than me (which doesn't necessarily count as much) and with people bigger or stronger, I've never understood the Flamethrower.

I say this with the belief that this is a technical move and that not everyone is equal in the execution of every technique. I wouldn't ask a critical question here if I didn't think there was an answer.

Whenever I'm in the top position and someone tries that sort of movement, I feel like I can stop them from dropping their hips, keeping their shoulders on the ground and ass straight up in the air. At that point, I am left in a position where capitalizing on the position is hard without hurting them, but I don't have to let them complete the roll. Sometimes I can't return them to side mount or turtle, but I could leave them upside down or cram weight down on their neck. The end effect is that I just protect them while they finish the roll and let them have guard.

I don't think the triangle is viable if the top person is intentionally countering the roll by keeping the bottom man suspended. Is there a main idea or part of the technique that lets you drop your hips? Whatever that is, is what I think people must be missing.

No sugar-coating here: flexibility helps a LOT with this movement. I have coached a lot of less flexible guys through the move, though, and they're able to execute it with a combination of timing and explosiveness.

While I'm not personally a huge fan of explosive movements in BJJ because they often hide weaknesses by letting people get away with sloppy techniques, in this case, it makes a lot of sense to utilize a fast movement to get underneath the person.

The timing aspect can also be crucial - if you try to sit underneath, back to guard, and the person does nothing, well, just sit to guard. If, on the other hand, they circle behind, that's a great opportunity to hit the flamethrower roll.

Hope this makes sense. I wish we had like a virtual mat with teleportation or something so I could just show you while we're rolling, or let you roll with some of my students, but alas, technology isn't quite there yet.

 

[SummerStriker]

No sugar-coating here: flexibility helps a LOT with this movement. I have coached a lot of less flexible guys through the move, though, and they're able to execute it with a combination of timing and explosiveness.

While I'm not personally a huge fan of explosive movements in BJJ because they often hide weaknesses by letting people get away with sloppy techniques, in this case, it makes a lot of sense to utilize a fast movement to get underneath the person.

The timing aspect can also be crucial - if you try to sit underneath, back to guard, and the person does nothing, well, just sit to guard. If, on the other hand, they circle behind, that's a great opportunity to hit the flamethrower roll.

Hope this makes sense. I wish we had like a virtual mat with teleportation or something so I could just show you while we're rolling, or let you roll with some of my students, but alas, technology isn't quite there yet.

Thank you, that makes perfect sense. I've almost never seen it done fast - live. People execute it live like they are doing a warm-up drill, no matter how hard the roll was up to that point.

I'll bet dimes to dollars if I go watch half an hour of tournament rolling I'll find someone doing it quick and explosive.

Thank you

 

[goatfury]

Thank you, that makes perfect sense. I've almost never seen it done fast - live. People execute it live like they are doing a warm-up drill, no matter how hard the roll was up to that point.

I'll bet dimes to dollars if I go watch half an hour of tournament rolling I'll find someone doing it quick and explosive.

Thank you

Glad to help, dude. If you can bend yourself in half, slow works, of course (provided you have a good double under defense, mind you!).

 

[Young Turkey]

Thank you, that makes perfect sense. I've almost never seen it done fast - live. People execute it live like they are doing a warm-up drill, no matter how hard the roll was up to that point.

I'll bet dimes to dollars if I go watch half an hour of tournament rolling I'll find someone doing it quick and explosive.

Thank you

Yeah flexibility is huge with this and other inverting moves.

2:20
[YT]watch?v=78NAEI_Gzzw[/YT]

 

[SummerStriker]

Yeah flexibility is huge with this and other inverting moves.

2:20
[YT]watch?v=78NAEI_Gzzw[/YT]

Cool stuff, thanks for the video.

 

[goatfury]

ttt