International Turkey's Lonely Road to Isolation: The World Looks on as Erdogan Jockeys for a Third Decade in Power

I am quite glad Erdogan is pushing Turkey into a more Islamist direction because it is better to notice it now than after they have snuck their way into the E.U.
 
I am quite glad Erdogan is pushing Turkey into a more Islamist direction because it is better to notice it now than after they have snuck their way into the E.U.

Why? Won't they just become more isolated and radical this way?
 
He has the pious Islamic masses in his thrall, which is all he cares about to fund his palaces and harem.
 
You will not be alone today, Turkey. You will be surrounded by people very much in love with you. We want you inside of us. And we will swallow. Oh, yeah. We will swallow.

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Happy Thanksgiving to all in the WR from Ultra!
 
Why? Won't they just become more isolated and radical this way?

They're a member of NATO, that didn't stop them from isolating themselves while becoming radicalized anyway.

Having cancer is bad, but transplanting a known cancerous tumor from somebody else into your healthy body is real bad. And it is a cancer cell's nature to spreads and destroy other healthy organs in the same body.

NATO doesn't currently have the mechanism and procedure to kick a member out of the club house, E.U might want to consider that.
 
Why? Won't they just become more isolated and radical this way?

Quite the opposite I fear. Hating anything Western and being unable to hate anything Islamic is very popular, especially among young people.
 
Firstly, I'd like to paraphrase an Aussie that posted on here the other day...something along the lines of "Don't judge a people by its politicians" Without going into a long essay on the last 40 years of Turkeys history, and while recognizing that Erdogan has led Turkey away from the west, I'd just like to remind people here that there are many millions of educated progressive people in Turkey that are fucking mortified by what Erdogan and his party has done, much in the same way that many were disgusted with the actions of Bush and his Neo Con handlers...the difference being that Erdogan and his folks are much heavier handed than the Neo cons, they have absolutely stifled any real opposition through legislation,force and intimidation...remember the Gezi protests, and others...what's happening in Turkey is a tragedy...this is a country that was westward leaning, was working towards joining the EU, made many changes that were asked of them by Europe, to their banking systems, agriculture, environmental situation, their legal system etc, and had all that progress turned inside out because Erdogan riled up the poorest most uneducated in the country and rode their shoulders into power. Turkey is a beautiful country with so much potential...its just a fucking shame...if you are interested, google Hurriyet daily news...its an englich language daily news website with great edtorials and articles, some of the columnists absolutely push the envelope as far as the laws there go in satirizing Erdogan, I have a lot of respect for them...anyways, just wanted to put in some good words for the Turkish people, they're some of the friendlies people you will ever meet, being led around by shitbag politicians just like everyone else.
 
I thought this was a thanksgiving thread. Thanks a lot
 
Pope Francis visit: Turkey's Christians face tense times
26 November 2014​

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People praying in an Orthodox Christian church in Turkey

It tells of a city where empires, cultures and religions collided. A building that bears mosaics of Jesus and the Virgin Mary beside calligraphy reading "Allah" and "the Prophet Mohamed". There is no greater symbol of the clash of civilisations here than Hagia Sophia.

For almost 1,000 years it stood as the most important Orthodox cathedral in the world, the religious heart of the largely Christian Byzantine empire whose capital was then called Constantinople.

But in 1453 the city fell to the Ottomans, Hagia Sophia became a mosque and Christianity began its slow demise here.

As Turkey grew out of the ashes of the Ottoman Empire, that decline accelerated. When Pope Francis arrives here this week, he will visit a country whose population has fallen from 20% Christian 100 years ago to around 0.2% today.

'Huge brain drain'

"No country in the region - including Iran - is as homogenous in terms of Islam as Turkey," says writer Cengiz Aktar. "It's a mono-colour country - it's a Muslim country."

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Writer Cengiz Aktar has created an exhibition on the exodus of Turkey's Greek population

After the Turkish Republic was born in 1923, it carried out a "population exchange" with Greece to create more ethnic and religious consistency. More than a million Greeks were forced out of Turkey to Greece while around 300,000 Muslims from Greece were relocated here.

The Greeks of Istanbul were initially saved but after a crippling wealth tax, anti-Greek pogroms in 1955 and mass expulsions in 1964, the Greek community was left in tatters. And so was the Orthodox Christianity they practised.

"The ethnic cleansing of these non-Muslim minorities was a huge brain drain," says Mr Aktar, who has created a new exhibition on the loss of the Greeks here.

"It also meant the disappearance of the bourgeoisie because not only were they wealthy but they were artisans. Istanbul lost its entire Christian and Jewish heritage."

Hidden crosses

It was not just the exodus of the Greeks that hit Christianity here.

Armenians were the other large Christian community. Hundreds of thousands were deported in 1915. They were either killed or died from starvation and disease. The label "genocide" is rejected by the Turkish state. From a population of two million Armenians, around 50,000 remain today.

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Robert Koptas says Armenian Christians worry about expressing their religious identity in Turkey

Robert Koptas shows me around the office of his Armenian weekly newspaper, Agos. In 2007, the editor, Hrant Dink, was murdered outside by Turkish nationalists. Seven years on, Mr Koptas says the small Armenian community feels intimidated.

"Armenians fear expressing their religious identity here," he says.

"Most of the believers hide their cross inside their shirt. They can't open it and walk freely on the street because they could prompt a reaction. I don't want to say all the Turkish population is against Christianity but nationalism is so high that people are afraid to express themselves."

That is now the worry among the Christian minority here: that Turkish Muslim nationalism has grown under the Islamist-rooted government of Recep Tayyip Erdogan, prime minister for 11 years before being elected president last August.

Dead missionaries

Mr Erdogan has made moves to support the Christians, such as passing a law to return confiscated state property to them and allowing Christian religious classes in schools. But he constantly stresses his Islamic identity, his support base is conservative Muslim and he whips up the nationalists here, the mood hardening against Christians.

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Father Iulian Pista says Turkish society is being Islamised

Catholics, the smallest Christian minority in Turkey, have felt the impact.

A spate of murders of Catholic missionaries and priests a few years ago left the community in shock. At the Catholic basilica in Istanbul, there is Mass for the few.

"To be a Turk now means you have to be Muslim," says Father Iulian Pista, who serves here.

"In the past, being a pious Muslim was looked down upon. Now Friday prayers are encouraged. Society here is becoming Islamised. Recently, I've seen youngsters defecate and urinate in my church. They shout 'Allahu akbar' [English: God is great]. I also believe God is great but the way they say it is threatening."

Islam was sidelined from the constitutionally secular Turkish republic founded in 1923. But as a nation state was formed here, the religion became part of Turkish national identity, something that has sharply accelerated under Mr Erdogan's leadership.

Old fears

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Bartholomew I holds the post of ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople

New mosques are flourishing, while the world-famous Halki Orthodox theological school near Istanbul has remained closed since 1971 under Turkish nationalist pressure. One of the remaining Greeks of Turkey, Fotis Benlisoy, says the community feels squeezed: "The threatening feeling for non-Muslim minorities here is coming again.

"There are many reasons: language and policies of the government, the president and prime minister using more conservative references to Sunni identity, pejorative words for non-Muslim communities coming from members of the cabinet, so much circulating about Turkey's relations with Isis [the Islamic State militant group based in Syria and Iraq] - all of this is making us think we might need an escape strategy."

At the magnificent Panaghia Greek Orthodox Church in Istanbul, the morning liturgy is led by Bartholomew I, "ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople", a position still based here.

It is a reminder of this country's heritage - and of a Christian faithful that is small but defiant. As modern Turkey builds its identity, the question still remains: can it embrace true religious freedom - or will nationalism stand in the way?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30214805
 
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One NATO state wins big from Putin clash with West

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Russian President Vladimir Putin (R) Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan (L) seen during a welcoming ceremony in Ankara, Turkey on Dec. 1st, 2014.


Russian President Vladimir Putin is trying to make the best of a tough geopolitical situation, and one NATO member is seeing big benefits.

Russia scrapped plans for a pipeline into Southern and Central Europe, and instead announced this week a new pipeline to carry discounted natural gas into Turkey. Moscow has already spent $4.5 billion on the so-called South Stream project, which would have seen Gazprom transport its product under the Black Sea and potentially all the way to Italy by way of several countries.

Turkey will be getting gas at what some have suggested may be a double-digit discount, while furthering its aspirations to be a regional energy hub.

"Turkey is looking out for itself," said Lauren Goodrich, senior Eurasia analyst at global intelligence and advisory firm Stratfor. "It's good for Russia to have a country that has a stake in Ukraine and a stake in the Black Sea and a NATO member that isn't putting sanctions on Russia...Turkey is standing on its own and they're going to reap the benefits from it."

Following Russia's announcement it was abandoning the project, some European politicians have already suggested that the South Stream project could be revived.

Gazprom has reported that discounts could be about 6 percent for Turkish customers, Goodrich said, but Russian energy minister Aleksandr Novak reportedly said an arrangement could settle on a 15 percent discount.

"Turkey is in a very interesting position," Goodrich said. "They see an opportunity that the rest of the world is kind of against Russia right now, so if they work with Russia they can get a better deal."

Russia previously announced a gas deal with China that many have said favored Beijing because of the geopolitical pressure on Moscow from Europe and the United States.

Still, experts stressed that those deals do not mean Russia is desperate, but simply playing its cards as well as it possibly can.

Putin's Monday announcement of the $30 billion South Stream pipeline's cancellation marked the culmination of increasing difficulties for the project, which began in 2007. Bulgaria ceased construction on its part of the line in June following pressure from the European Commission that the deal would violate the Third Energy Package legislation, and other E.U. states were being similarly influence, Goodrich explained.

Additionally, the cost of the project had ballooned from its original $10 billion projection, with some estimates putting the ultimate price tag around $50 billion. While the new Turkish pipeline may cost as much, Goodrich said, Moscow sees the market there as more promising than the tepid European one.

In fact, Russia has already found a successful partnership with Turkey in the Blue Stream pipeline between the two countries, explained Tim Boersma, acting director for the Energy Security Initiative at Brookings. He described this week's announcement as a "reinforcement" of those relations that reflects shifting global energy demand.

"Similar to China, in Turkey natural gas demand is expected to increase substantially in the coming decades, whereas European gas demand is in decline," Boersma told CNBC. "I think Russia's decision should be seen in that context, and is further incentivized by the anti-Russian sentiment in Europe."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102241489
 
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Islamist Erdogan again showing his Islamic imperialist colors.

Erdogan says the Ottoman language will be taught in high schools whether people like it or not.

Addressing the Fifth Religion Council hosted by Turkey's Religious Affairs Directorate, Erdoğan defended the proposed classes saying that learning the Ottoman language will restore severed ties with
 
At least they are not teaching Arabic.

Or is it the Ottoman language is based in Arabic? I was not aware that the Ottoman Languages was different than Turkish.

I am sorry I am ignorant I don;t know jack shit about languages in that region.
 
At least they are not teaching Arabic.

Or is it the Ottoman language is based in Arabic? I was not aware that the Ottoman Languages was different than Turkish.

I am sorry I am ignorant I don;t know jack shit about languages in that region.

I am not knowledeagble on the Ottoman language either. little blurb from Wiki:

It borrows extensively from Arabic and Persian, and was written in the Ottoman Turkish alphabet. During the peak of Ottoman power, words of Arabic origins heavily outnumbered native Turkish words in the Ottoman language.[1] Consequently, Ottoman Turkish was largely unintelligible to the less-educated lower-class and rural Turks, who continued to use kaba T
 
Heartbreaking that only a few hundreds Greeks remain in Constantinople.
 
Heartbreaking that only a few hundreds Greeks remain in Constantinople.

To hear Muslims wail about not having sole possession of Jerusalem is simply unbelievable.
 
To hear Muslims wail about not having sole possession of Jerusalem is simply unbelievable.

Yeah it's a shame no one cares about it, but even if the PC armies gave a shit there is little that can be done. I doubt many Greeks would want to live in the city anyway. The old city is more or less a shithole outside the touristy bits.
 
Turkey Issues Arrest Warrant For U.S.-Based Muslim Cleric Gulen

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ISTANBUL, Dec 19 (Reuters) - Turkish authorities are seeking an arrest warrant for U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen whom President Tayyip Erdogan accuses of trying to undermine Turkey and overthrow him, a government official said on Friday.

The issue of a warrant would take Erdogan's campaign to root out Gulen supporters, including purges of the judiciary and police, to the international arena potentially testing already strained relations with Washington.

Gulen has lived in self-imposed exile in Pennsylvania since 1999. He was a close ally of Erdogan in the early years after his ruling AK Party took power in 2002 but has been in open conflict with him since a graft investigation emerged a year ago targeting the then-prime minister's inner circle.

Erdogan portrays the investigation as part of a coup attempt and describes Gulen's followers as traitors and terrorists - all charges that Gulen, who runs a vast network of schools and business enterprises in Turkey and abroad, denies.

Turkish courts have dropped the corruption cases, critics at home and in the West citing that as evidence Erdogan is stripping the judiciary of its independence.

Asked about a report that a warrant had been issued, a government official, requesting anonymity, told Reuters: "There is no decision yet. The prosecutor has made a request and the judge is evaluating it."

It was not immediately clear on what specific grounds the warrant was being requested.

If it is forthcoming, Turkish authorities would be free to apply to the United States for extradition, with no guarantee of success. Erdogan's image in the West, once that of a moderate reformer, has been eroded as his open intolerance of opposition and of criticism has grown.

A Turkish court on Friday kept a media executive close to Gulen and three other people in custody pending trial on accusations of belonging to a terrorist group, in a case which Erdogan has defended as a response to "dirty operations" by his enemies.

Hidayet Karaca heads Samanyolu Television which is close to Gulen.

The European Union, which Turkey is seeking to join, has said last weekend's police raids to detain Karaca and other media workers was contrary to European values. Erdogan told the bloc to mind its own business.

Ekrem Dumanli, editor-in-chief of the Gulen-linked Zaman newspaper, was released but forbidden from traveling abroad before trial. Seven more people whom prosecutors sought remanded in custody in the case were also released pending trial.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/19/turkey-gulen-arrest-warrant_n_6353878.html
 
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