International Turkey is Angry that the Massacre of 1,500,000 Armenians is Finally Being Recognized a "Genocide"

[Loriquero]

Lol, funny.

I wonder what kind of briefing they give them when they come to study in America for college? There were tons of students from the mainland at my university. I remember one of them somehow getting into a discussion about the Chinese government during a physics lab, of all places, and she was just in complete denial.

I'm assuming they make them major in technical and scientific fields, first of all, since those will lead to the least amount of exposure to a non-Chinese take on China's history. But, at least in America, you have to take liberal arts classes in order to graduate. That means some sort of history class or two. Then there's unbridled access to the internet for the first time in their lives. How do they expect to keep them down on the farm once they've seen Paris, figuratively speaking?

Those folks studying abroad don't count even for 1% of chinese population, and half of them will still be in denial about everything, at least in front of non-chinese people. They have this kind of philosophy about not talking bad about china if there are foreigners around.

My wife is chinese, she studied her master degree in England and she once told me about how a mainland dude insult a taiwanese girl inside a classroom because she said she is not chinese. He made the girl cry in front of everyone.

Also, when I argue her that Taiwan is not China (the political entity People's republic of China) because those dirty commies have never ruled the island of Taiwan, she gets mad to the point of trowing things to me and yell around that I'm wrong and I don't understand China's situation.

Bonus: Last time we were in a pic-nic with some friends and friends of my friends in Shanghai, and between those people there was this japanese couple playing guitar and stuff, then they left early and then a 8-9 years old chinese girl said (after they left): "The japanese killed many people in the war..." All the other chinese were relieved saying things like: wow, at least those guys left already..." And I was laughing out loud, telling the little girl to keep speaking, then she said: "Yes, they killed many people, but chairman Mao beat them and repeled them away from China..." I had some glasses of wine by then, and then I started to laugh even harder, hugging my almost two years old daughter telling her in chinese (I never speak to her in chinese, I just wanted everyone else to understand what I was saying): Quickly! let's leave this country as soon as possible before you start getting this education... (I know, I was a complete asshole saying those things in front of chinese, IN CHINA). After that episode, I think my wife was never the same...

 

[MicroBrew]

I am surprised Merkel and Co. allowed the parliment to do this, what with them bending over for Erdogan and all.

Turkey has recalled its ambassodor to Germany. Now if only the Germans tell the Turks to keep him there.

The Turks just prove how genocidal they are when they attempt to deny and suppress the truth.


http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-vote-armenian-genocide-20160602-snap-story.html

 

[Arkain2K]

German Parliament Recognizes Armenian Genocide, Angering Turkey
By ALISON SMALE and MELISSA EDDY
JUNE 2, 2016

​

BERLIN — The German Parliament overwhelmingly adopted a symbolic but fraught resolution on Thursday declaring the killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks in 1915 a genocide, escalating tensions with Turkey at a diplomatically delicate juncture.

The Turkish government angrily denounced the vote as “null and void,” and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called his ambassador in Germany back to Ankara for consultations.

“The way to close the dark pages of your own history is not by defaming the histories of other countries with irresponsible and baseless decisions,” Turkey’s foreign minister, Mevlut Cavusoglu, wrote on Twitter. In Ankara, Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said, “There is no shameful incident in our past that would make us bow our heads.”

Germany needs Turkey’s help in following through on a deal with the European Union to manage the refugee crisis attributed in large part to the Syrian civil war. At the same time, the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, has been under pressure not to be seen as caving to pressure from Ankara to compromise on Western values, particularly after a recent dust-up over freedom of speech set off by a German comedian’s satire that outraged Mr. Erdogan.

For Turkey, there is scarcely a more delicate topic than what historians say was the murder of more than a million Armenians and other Christian minorities in 1915-16. In April, Mr. Erdogan visited the Armenian Patriarchate of Turkey and, in a carefully worded statement, extended condolences to the families of those who had died, but the Turkish government has long rejected the term genocide.

Ankara has noted that thousands of people, many of them Turks, died in the civil war that destroyed the Ottoman Empire, and argued that the estimates of the number of Armenian deaths have been exaggerated.

The issue is also fraught for Germany. At the time of the killings, Germany, led by Kaiser Wilhelm II, was allied with the Ottomans, fighting alongside the Austro-Hungarian Empire against Britain, France and Russia in World War I. Acceptance of German responsibility for the atrocities of World War II has become an established part of the nation’s culture, and historians and activists have said that the Armenian resolution was an important step in acknowledging Germany’s indirect involvement in the 1915 killings.

Pope Francis called the killings a genocide last year, but the United States has long skirted the issue. President Obama stopped short of using the word — most recently in a statement marking Armenian Remembrance Day on April 24 — though he used the term before becoming president.

Spoiler

Ms. Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union and its coalition partners supported the resolution, which was originally proposed for last year, to mark the centennial of the start of the killings. But it was repeatedly delayed, most recently in February, over concerns about angering Ankara.

As the vote approached, debate intensified in Germany, which is home to an estimated three million people of Turkish descent, many of whom have dual citizenship. About 2,000 Turks demonstrated last weekend in Berlin, rallying to say that Parliament is not a court and therefore should not pass judgment.

Ms. Merkel was in a tough spot. When she visited Istanbul last week, she spent time with Turkish intellectuals and lawyers critical of Mr. Erdogan before meeting the president, who warned her not to move forward with the resolution.

Her decision to do so, despite those objections, may have been influenced by an episode in March, when a German comic, Jan Böhmermann, lampooned Mr. Erdogan with a crude poem. Ms. Merkel initially criticized the verses, giving the impression — which she later said was a mistake — that she advocated restrictions on freedom of expression in Germany. Critics portrayed her as weak.

Cem Ozdemir, the co-chairman of the opposition Greens and a driving force behind the resolution, accused Ms. Merkel of paying little heed to Turkey for most of her decade in power, until circumstances forced her to engage with Mr. Erdogan.

On Thursday, Mr. Ozdemir said there was “never a favorable time to speak about something as dreadful as genocide.”

Mr. Ozdemir read century-old statements by officials of the German Empire showing they knew that up to 90 percent of Armenians had been killed. “Working through the Shoah is the basis of democracy in Germany,” Mr. Ozdemir said, referring to the Holocaust. “This genocide is also waiting to be worked through.”

He noted that there were Turks who had saved Armenians. “Before them, we bow down with highest respect,” he said.

Mr. Ozdemir said he had received threats because of his support for the vote, but that it was even more dangerous for people in Turkey to acknowledge the genocide.

The vote in the Bundestag, the lower house of Parliament, was nearly unanimous, with one lawmaker voting against and another abstaining. (Ms. Merkel and the two most senior Social Democrat ministers — Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel and Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier — were not present.)

Norbert Lammert, the president of the Bundestag, kicked off the debate with a clear message. “Parliament is not a historians’ commission, and certainly not a court,” he said. He added that the current Turkish government “is not responsible for what happened 100 years ago, but it does have responsibility for what becomes of this” in present times.

Mr. Lammert, a Christian Democrat, labeled the Ottomans’ killing of Armenians as genocide last year. Particularly because of “our own chapters of dark history,” Germans know that only by working through past events can one achieve reconciliation and cooperation, Mr. Lammert said on Thursday.

Including Germany, 12 of the European Union’s 28 members have recognized the Armenian killings as genocide. Despite initial protests, Turkey has maintained good relations with several of those countries.

When France approved legislation in 2011 recognizing the genocide, Turkey temporarily recalled its ambassador and halted bilateral military cooperation. Such steps by Ankara would be more complicated today and potentially more damaging, as Germany and Turkey are engaged in a NATO operation to stop migrant boats crossing the Aegean Sea from Turkey to Greece.

Aydan Ozoguz, the German commissioner for integration, who — like Mr. Ozdemir — is of Turkish descent, said before the vote that while she intended to vote for the resolution, “I still think it is the wrong path.” She added that she thought it would backfire.

Mr. Erdogan and ultranationalist Turks “will get a huge boost,” Ms. Ozoguz said. “They will use the resolution as proof of a further attack by the West on Turkey. Reasonable, considered voices will be isolated and will have no chance to be heard for a long time.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/03/world/europe/armenian-genocide-germany-turkey.html

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

It's about time. I like the Turks and prefer them over the Arab leaders in the region. Assad did not seem so bad but at this point too much blood has been spilled.

Thought don't lie. You'd be happy to see a Kurdish state break off part of Turkey. The part the Turks stole. Similar to how Greeks long for western far parts of Anatolia and the islands stolen from them by Turks.

 

[Abezal]

I am surprised Merkel and Co. allowed the parliment to do this, what with them bending over for Erdogan and all.

Turkey has recalled its ambassodor to Germany. Now if only the Germans tell the Turks to keep him there.

The Turks just prove how genocidal they are when they attempt to deny and suppress the truth.


http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-vote-armenian-genocide-20160602-snap-story.html

Germs arent exactly in any position to deny a genocide. them being the pound for pound experts at it.

 

[MicroBrew]

It's about time. I like the Turks and prefer them over the Arab leaders in the region. Assad did not seem so bad but at this point too much blood has been spilled.

Thought don't lie. You'd be happy to see a Kurdish state break off part of Turkey. The part the Turks stole. Similar to how Greeks long for western far parts of Anatolia and the islands stolen from them by Turks.

Ofcourse I would be happy to see the Kurds break off part of Turkey . That could be the start of other minorities (native Cypriuots, Armenians, Syriac, Alawites, Greek Orthodox ) exerting themselves against the Turks. The Turks have been genociding and dominating for a long time, about time they get some comeuppance.

Ironically while the Turks have been brutalizing other people, they bend over and worship an Arab ...5 times a day.

 

[MicroBrew]

Germs arent exactly in any position to deny a genocide. them being the pound for pound experts at it.

Germany doesn't say much about the Herrero genocide they conducted in Namibia and the Western world does not pressure Germany to deal with it like Germany deals with the Holocaust. The lessons Germany learned while conduction the Herrero genocide was used towards the Holocaust. Pretty telling how all the very vocal voices in the West who make sure everyone knows about the Holocaust are quiet about the Herrero genocide.

 

[Arkain2K]

I'm beginning to think WR folks don't like being organized.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...rmenians-is-called-a-genocide.2976417/page-11

 

[Arkain2K]

Turkey Hits Back At Germany After Armenian Genocide Vote
It’s unclear whether German lawmakers’ decision to recognize the Armenian Genocide will affect the EU-Turkey refugee deal.
06/02/2016

ISTANBUL — Turkey recalled its ambassador to Germany on Thursday following a high-profile vote in Germany’s parliament that formally recognized the 1915 mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks as genocide.

The vote also places blame on Germany — which allied with the Ottomans in World War I — for failing to prevent the deaths of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians at that time.

Over a century later, the events widely known as the Armenian Genocide are still embroiled in controversy and hold significant political weight.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Thursday that German lawmakers’ nearly unanimous decision would “seriously affect relations” between the two countries. Erdogan’s relationship with Germany has deteriorated in recent months, and he made his fury over the vote known.

Turkey’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs accused Germany on Thursday of attempting to “alienate [Turks in Germany] from their own history and self-identity.”

Recalling Hüseyin Avni Karslioglu,the Turkish ambassador to Germany, was only a “first step,” Erdogan said. Ankara also reportedly summoned its charge d’affaires from Berlin on Thursday.

Erdogan has offered muted condolences for the 1915 killings, saying that there were indeed events with “inhumane consequences” during World War I, but Turkey wholly denies the murders ever amounted to genocide. The Turkish state has also slammed critics for not paying more attention to the ethnic Turks who also died during that time.

Armenians, on the other hand, say the massacre fits every definition of the word genocide.

Men, women and children were forced on death marches, starved, raped and buried in mass graves just because they were Armenian, descendants of victims and survivors say.

“The genocide is not forgotten,” said 95-year-old Mari Tomasyan, who told The WorldPost last year that dozens of her family members were marched toward the Syrian Desert to their deaths in 1915. “It’s impossible to forget.”

Armenians killed by Ottoman Turks during the Armenian Genocide in 1915.​

While Armenians welcomed Germany’s decision to label the killings as genocide, it’s not clear how the resulting political spat between Germany and Turkey will affect other groups, like Syrian refugees.

Both Turkey and Germany are key players in the international effort to address the refugee crisis as millions of Syrians flee to neighboring countries and risk dangerous sea passages to Europe.

Turkey hosts more Syrian refugees than any other country, with over 2.7 million Syrians seeking refuge on Turkish soil. Meanwhile, roughly 1.1 million migrants arrived in Germany last year, many of them from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Turkey’s spat with Germany casts further doubt on the fate of the controversial and already-shaky EU-Turkey deal to manage the crisis. As part of the deal — which rights groups say is illegal and inhumane — Turkey has agreed to take back migrants who illegally cross the Aegean Sea to Greece.

The EU has promised to resettle one Syrian refugee in Europe in exchange for every migrant Turkey takes in, and has also pledged some 6 billion euros to help Turkey bear the financial burden of caring for millions of Syrian refugees.

It remains to be seen whether the German vote will impact the EU-Turkey deal. German Chancellor Angela Merkel attempted on Thursday to downplay the vote and its potential for political consequences.

“There is a lot that binds Germany to Turkey, and even if we have a difference of opinion on an individual matter, the breadth of our links, our friendship, our strategic ties, is great,” Merkel said.

Germany is far from the first EU country to recognize the 1915 massacre as a genocide — 11 out of 28 EU members now use the label to describe the mass killing of Armenians. Over 20 countries formally recognize the Armenian Genocide. That list does not include the United States.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...armenian-genocide_us_57502cbae4b0ed593f1350f0

 

[Bloodworth]

So we can identify genocide, but just let turkey get away with it?

Seems like people are more concerned what to call the million dead, rather then do anything about it

 

[Factory]

Finally! It took so long...

But what gets me angry is that the government leaders Merkel and Gabriel were not there. They just ducked this resolution. Such an important discussion and decision and our two most powerful, important leaders just cut it.

Everybody ask why? Because honestly, this is unacceptable.

 

[SammyPops]

after other sherodg genocide threads, I have to ask: did this genocide actually happen or is soemone going to drop a vidoe in this thread to blow minds?

 

[KOQ24]

Most of our government (Ministers + chancellor) actually ducked that vote...................

 

[Abezal]

Germany doesn't say much about the Herrero genocide they conducted in Namibia and the Western world does not pressure Germany to deal with it like Germany deals with the Holocaust. The lessons Germany learned while conduction the Herrero genocide was used towards the Holocaust. Pretty telling how all the very vocal voices in the West who make sure everyone knows about the Holocaust are quiet about the Herrero genocide.

Didn't they own up to it ? they just refused any reparations. And what about 100k with much death due to conditions. A bit different then killing millions many of them kids being gassed and burned.

 

[Lead]

Is there a reason that "The Young Turks" show has their name? I don't know much history about the genocide but I find it weird there was a group at the time named that and this guy chose the same name. Maybe it had a meaning before the genocide as well? Can anyone expand on this? I'd really like to know

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/young_turks.html

 

[Dalarna3]

Is there a reason that "The Young Turks" show has their name? I don't know much history about the genocide but I find it weird there was a group at the time named that and this guy chose the same name. Maybe it had a meaning before the genocide as well? Can anyone expand on this? I'd really like to know

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/young_turks.html

"Young Turks (Turkish: Jön Türkler, from French: Les Jeunes Turcs) was a political reform movement in the early 20th century, which favored replacement of the Ottoman Empire's absolute monarchy with a constitutional government. Later, their leaders led a rebellion against the absolute rule of Sultan Abdul Hamid II in the 1908 Young Turk Revolution.[1] With this revolution, the Young Turks helped to establish the Second Constitutional Era in 1908, ushering in an era of multi-party democracy for the first time in the country’s history.[2]

After 1908, the Young Turks’ initial umbrella political party, the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP; Turkish: İttihat ve Terakki Cemiyeti),[3] began a series of modernizing military and political reforms across the Ottoman Empire. However, the CUP soon began to splinter as many of the more liberal and pro-decentralization Young Turks left to form an opposition party in late 1911, the Freedom and Accord Party (also known as the Liberal Union or Liberal Entente),[4] with much of those staying in the CUP favoring a generally nationalist and pro-centralization policy.[5] In a year-long power struggle throughout 1912, Freedom and Accord and the remaining members of the CUP vied for control of the Ottoman government, the year seeing a rigged election by the CUP and a military revolt by Freedom and Accord.

The struggle between the two groups of Young Turks ended in January 1913, when the top leadership of the CUP seized personal power from Freedom and Accord in the Raid on the Sublime Porte. The subsequent CUP-led government was headed by interior minister and Grand Vizier Talaat Pasha. Working with him were war minister Enver Pasha and naval minister Djemal Pasha. These "Three Pashas", as they came to be known, exercised absolute control over the Ottoman Empire from 1913 to 1918, bringing the country closer to Germany, signing the Ottoman–German Alliance to enter the Empire into World War I on the side of the Central Powers,[6][7][8] and carrying out the Armenian Genocide.[9] Following the war, the struggle between the two groups of Young Turks revived, Freedom and Accord Party regaining the control of the Ottoman government and Three Pashas fleeing into exile. Freedom and Accord rule was short lived, however, and the empire soon collapsed.

The term "Young Turk" is now used to signify "a progressive, revolutionary, or rebellious member of an organization, political party, etc, esp one agitating for radical reform"[10] and various groups in different countries have been named Young Turks because of their rebellious or revolutionary nature."

 

[dittohead84]

Dont forget the Irish Genocide either. Or 'Famine' as its known

 

[ArtemV]

Turkish aren't so bad, but it takes a new level of retardedness to deny that this genocide happened. Acknowledgement is the key, and to respect and never let it happen again.

 

[Arkain2K]

Is there a reason that "The Young Turks" show has their name? I don't know much history about the genocide but I find it weird there was a group at the time named that and this guy chose the same name. Maybe it had a meaning before the genocide as well? Can anyone expand on this? I'd really like to know

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/young_turks.html

Since the definition has already been posted above, I'll point out the obvious that the show is hosted by young men of Turkish descend.

 

[Slippery Kantus]

Fuck everything Turkey stands for.