International Turkey is Angry that the Massacre of 1,500,000 Armenians is Finally Being Recognized a "Genocide"

Based on what? They seem to do pretty well in regards to the magnitudes of genocides they commit.

Europeans were certainly dam good at it but lots of countries or cultures did pretty well in the genocide department, doesn't mean they are European.

By European Values, I am referring to : Secularism, tolerance of diverse cultures. Religious tolerance. Relatively equal gender rights. Gay and transgender rights. Corruption and transparency. Freedom of Press. Now some of the above aren't exclusive to Europe but Secularism and tolerance of other cultures is a notable aspect of Western European nations , relative to MidEast/Asia.
 
By European Values, I am referring to : Secularism, tolerance of diverse cultures. Religious tolerance. Relatively equal gender rights. Gay and transgender rights. Corruption and transparency. Freedom of Press.
So, like 70 years tops.
 
Ya replied while I was editing, no matter my post didn't change markedly.

I don't follow when what " 70 years tops " means.
All those things are pretty new "Western Values".

I'm happily anti-theistic and, clearly, the practice of islam is currently the worst of the big three. However, it is pretty ridiculous to pretend that there's something special about islam's practice when many of its worst elements were in frequent practice pretty recently among those to whom your now comparing muslims.
 
Turkey: Putin Wrong to Recognize Armenian Genocide Because of Russian
 
putin-sunglasses-AFP-640x480.jpg

Somebody shoop a "deal with it" over it, please
 
As I said, the Catholic church should know as they have great expertise in conducting genocide.

Here they are honoring a genocidal criminal as a Saint just like they honor "Saint" Francis Xavier (responsible for the inquisition in Goa):
Sainthood for California ‘ethnic cleansing’ missionary angers native Americans

AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
19 FEB 2015 AT 09:20 ET

The Franciscan friar who brought Christianity to California in the 18th century is on track for sainthood, but for Native Americans, his legacy is anything but holy.

Junipero Serra founded the first nine of what would become 21 Spanish missions stretching from San Diego to San Francisco, giving the Roman Catholic Church a firm foothold in what was then called New Spain.

Beatified by Pope John Paul II in September 1988, he is set to be canonized when his successor Pope Francis makes his first papal visit to the United States in September.

Serra died in 1784 at the age of 70 at Carmel, the headquarters of his Alta California missions, where he remains interred under the chapel floor.

Among Native Americans, he’s a controversial figure.

They hold him responsible for the suppression of their centuries-old culture and the brutal death of countless thousands of their ancestors.

“We strongly oppose naming the murderer of our people and culture a saint,” said Toypurina Carac, spokesman for the Kizh Gabrieleno nation in greater Los Angeles.


“We are very surprised that a modern, progressive pope like Francis would follow through on this, without doing his homework on the history of Serra and his true legacy,” he told AFP.

Ron Andrade, director of the Los Angeles city and county Native American Indian Commission, acknowledged that Serra himself never personally killed anyone.

“But then, neither did Hitler,” said Andrade, referring to what he called the “genocide” of California’s indigenous peoples.

– ‘Ethnic cleansing’ –

An online petition, launched by Carac on the liberal website MoveOn.org, appealing to Pope Francis not to canonize Serra, has drawn more than 3,100 signatures.

“It is imperative he is enlightened to understand that Father Serra was responsible for the deception, exploitation, oppression, enslavement and genocide of thousands of indigenous Californians, ultimately resulting in the largest ethnic cleansing in North America,” the petition states.

A Jesuit who is spiritually close to Saint Francis of Assisi, founder of the Franciscan order, the pope announced in mid-January, en route to the Philippines, his intention to canonize Serra as “the great evangelizer” of the American west coast.

Pope Francis will visit Washington, Philadelphia and New York, but not California, on his September 22-27 American tour.

Los Angeles Archbishop Jose Gomez hailed the pope’s intentions, calling it a “gift to California and the Americas.”

“It’s wonderful to think that this new saint once walked the road that is now the Hollywood Freeway,” said Gomez in a statement, referring to one of the most traffic-clogged highways in the United States.

He acknowledged that canonization would revive bad memories of Indian suffering in missionary and colonial times, but recalled an apology that Pope John Paul II extended to native Americans in 1992.

Serra’s name appears widely in California, on street signs and schools, and even on a mountain — the 5,857 foot (1,785 meter) Junipero Serra Peak in Monterey County.

– ‘A short temper’ –

University of California at Riverside history professor Steven Hackel, author of “Junipero Serra: California’s Founding Father,” described the monk as “a very controversial figure even in his own day.”

“Many loved him and many found him impossible,” Hackel told AFP.

“He could have a short temper. He was very strong willed. When he believed something was right, he believed it was God’s plan.”

Born on the Spanish island of Majorca, Serra, a noted theologian, travelled first to Mexico before he founded, in San Diego in 1769, the first of his network of missions to convert the Indians.

“They were asked to speak a different language,” Hackel said.

“They were frequently told who they could marry. They were told to dress in a certain manner and to stay there (in the mission) and work.”

They also died in large numbers, their immune systems unable to cope with illnesses that the Europeans brought with them.

According to Hackel, one Indian baby in three did not live longer than a year, and two in five died between the ages of two and four.

Elias Castillo, author of “A Cross of Thorns: the Enslavement of California’s Indians by the Spanish Missions,” said the Catholic outposts were veritable “death camps.”

They were places, he said, where 62,000 Indians perished as a result of brutality, illness or malnutrition, out of a total indigenous population of 300,000.

“Serra took upon himself that he would simply enslaved the Indians,” Castillo told AFP. “He had no order to do that.”


Taking an opposing view, Gregory Orfalean, author of another biography about Serra, said the missionary “often risked his own life for the Indians.”

“He often fought with his Spanish overlords in the government and military and advocated strongly on behalf of the California Indian,” he said.

The dramatic 80 percent drop in California’s indigenous population came later, he said, at the time of the mid-19th century gold rush, more often at the hands of white settlers than a result of disease.

http://ht.ly/Mfb1v
May be the Pope first ought to clean his own house filled with :eek::eek::eek::eek:philes and assorted criminals before lecturing the Turks.
 
More information on this criminal they want to elevate to Sainthood & the Catholic church's role in genocides:
Pope Francis speaking out about the Armenian genocide is significant, but the pope has not addressed U.S. history, nor has he looked closely enough at the Christian colonial record. His proposal to canonize the 18th century Spanish monk, Junipero Serra, this year during a visit to the U.S. shows he is in denial about American Indian genocide.

A Public Broadcasting System (PBS) profile of Serra describes the monk as "a driving force in the Spanish conquest and colonization of what is now the state of California." PBS points out that the Spanish missions were "intended both to Christianize the extensive Indian populations and to serve Spain's strategic interest by preventing Russian explorations and possible claims to North America's Pacific coast."

In fact, the papacy has a clouded record when it comes to genocide. Pope Pius XII, for example, never publicly condemned the Nazi persecution of Jews, even when Jewish people were being rounded up and deported from Rome. Pius XI actually supported Mussolini's fascist government, as detailed in David Kertzer's book, "The Pope and Mussolini: The Secret History of Pius XI and the Rise of Fascism in Europe." An internal Vatican document from the period states: "Catholics could only think with terror of what might happen in Italy if the Honorable Mussolini
 
Has any Islamic/Muslim country recognised the armenian genocide by the Turks?
 
As I said, the Catholic church should know as they have great expertise in conducting genocide.

Here they are honoring a genocidal criminal as a Saint just like they honor "Saint" Francis Xavier (responsible for the inquisition in Goa):

May be the Pope first ought to clean his own house filled with :eek::eek::eek::eek:philes and assorted criminals before lecturing the Turks.

More information on this criminal they want to elevate to Sainthood & the Catholic church's role in genocides:

You sound like a Turk. You are diverting attention from the claim of genocide towards another's past and saying "Look! You weren't much better either!"

I agree the Church has blood on its hands, but don't hijack the thread and turn it around. This is about the Armenian genocide.
 
Has any Islamic/Muslim country recognised the armenian genocide by the Turks?

"In 2014 Syrian President Bashar al-Assad became the first Syrian head of state to acknowledge the mass murders of Armenians and identify the perpetrator as Ottoman Turkey, stating, "The degree of savagery and inhumanity that the terrorists have reached reminds us of what happened in the Middle Ages in Europe over 500 years ago. In more recent modern times, it reminds us of the massacres perpetrated by the Ottomans against the Armenians, when they killed a million and a half Armenians and half a million Orthodox Syriacs in Syria and in Turkish territory." Although Assad did not use the word genocide, two days after Assad's statement Bashar Jaafari, Syria
 
Ha, I was there when they announced it. We were protesting in front of the Turkish embassy. There were barricades and police officers that separated us from the turks who played loud music and danced as Armenians protested. Then we waited for silence and made the announcement that the motion passed through parliament and there was dead silence on the other side. I peeked through momentarily and many of them had a look of confusion on their faces. Many of them were children, teens and young adults so I don't blame them for having been brainwashed. I'm glad Canada is finally stepping up after several years of denial.

We have a few of those obnoxious kids right here in this thread.

They're the ones trying to derail this discussion to anything BUT the Armenian Genocide.

Unfortunately for them, once I create a thread on Sherdog, I make my best effort to post regular updates to keep it on topic.

Thanks for the first-hand account from Canada by the way. Feel free to add pictures and videos from the scene if you have them.
 
"In 2014 Syrian President Bashar al-Assad became the first Syrian head of state to acknowledge the mass murders of Armenians and identify the perpetrator as Ottoman Turkey, stating, "The degree of savagery and inhumanity that the terrorists have reached reminds us of what happened in the Middle Ages in Europe over 500 years ago. In more recent modern times, it reminds us of the massacres perpetrated by the Ottomans against the Armenians, when they killed a million and a half Armenians and half a million Orthodox Syriacs in Syria and in Turkish territory." Although Assad did not use the word genocide, two days after Assad's statement Bashar Jaafari, Syria
 
Ha, I was there when they announced it. We were protesting in front of the Turkish embassy. There were barricades and police officers that separated us from the turks who played loud music and danced as Armenians protested. Then we waited for silence and made the announcement that the motion passed through parliament and there was dead silence on the other side. I peeked through momentarily and many of them had a look of confusion on their faces. Many of them were children, teens and young adults so I don't blame them for having been brainwashed. I'm glad Canada is finally stepping up after several years of denial.

My buddy was there last weekend too, his wife is Armenian and he went in support of her and her fam. When he told me that there were like 800 or so Turks counter-protesting, it boggled my mind. Wtf would a Turkish person be protesting in that situation? Don't call the genocide that my or my parents country perpetrated 100 years ago a genocide? It's totally fucked.
 
If there really is pressure on Turkey it makes you wonder what the politics behind it are.
 
Obama Once Again Avoids Saying ‘Genocide’ in Commemorating the Armenian Genocide
Bryan Tau - April 22, 2016
BN-NR568_Armeni_J_20160422135351.jpg

Pre-K students plant forget-me-not flowers outside of the school during the commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the Armenian genocidelast May in New Milford, NJ


In his annual statement on the mass death of Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Empire in 1915, President Barack Obama once again declined to use the term “genocide” — breaking a campaign promise he made eight years ago.

In his commemoration on the mass killings, which may have claimed as many as 1.5 million lives, Mr. Obama paid homage to the victims and vowed to “to learn from this tragedy so it may never be repeated.”

His lengthy statement released Friday, however, did not use the term “genocide” — the source of a major geopolitical dispute between Turkey and Armenian about the historical context of the massing killings.

It also violates a campaign promise Mr. Obama made in 2008, when he said in a statement released by his campaign that “as president I will recognize the Armenian Genocide.” As a U.S. senator, Mr. Obama also supported a congressional resolution recognizing the killings as genocide.

But Turkey — a key U.S. ally and strategy partner at the crossroads of the Middle East and Europe — has long objected to the use of the term genocide. Turkey has argued the issue of whether the killings were genocide isn’t for modern-day governments to decide, contests the number of deaths and argues those killed were casualties of a larger armed conflict, which was an outgrowth of World War I.

“The president has consistently stated his view of what occurred in 1915, and his views have not changed,” a senior administration official said. “The president and other senior Administration officials have acknowledged as historical fact and mourned the deaths of 1.5 million Armenians who were massacred or marched to their deaths in the final days of the Ottoman Empire. They have stated that a full, frank, and just acknowledgement of the facts is in our all interests, including Turkey’s, Armenia’s, and America’s.”

Aram Hamparian, the executive director of the Armenian National Committee of America, criticized the White House’s decision to again avoid the use of the term “genocide” in a statement.

“It seems President Obama will end his tenure as he began it, caving in to pressure from Turkey and betraying his commitment to speak honestly about the Armenian Genocide,” said Mr. Hamparian.

The decision also drew a rebuke from Rep. Adam Schiff, a California Democrat who has long pushed the U.S. government to label the killings a genocide.

“For a president who knows the history so well, who spoke so passionately about the genocide as a Senator and Presidential candidate, and who has always championed human rights, the choice of silence and complicity is all the more painfully inexplicable. Remaining silent in an effort to curry favor with Turkey is as morally indefensible as it will be ineffectual,” said Mr. Schiff in a statement.


http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/04/22/obama-avoids-genocide-in-commemorating-armenian-deaths/
 
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