International Turkey is Angry that the Massacre of 1,500,000 Armenians is Finally Being Recognized a "Genocide"

If they could see the future then, British. As history has it they already did.
Do you think they could see the future though? In the case that they couldn't, which empire would they prefer?
We didn't have enough time to influence anything there. The rule was only 30 years sandwiched between two world wars. If you look at our former colonies where we ruled for a long time they're prosperous today while all former Ottoman colonies are doing poorly. Nice legacy huh?
Yeah Sierre Leon, Sudan, Gambia, Egypt, and Uganda are all a picture of prosperity. And India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are exactly what comes to mind when people think "prosperous". Or are you thinking of the US, Canada, and Australia? The countries where the English settlers decimated the native populations and forced them onto reservations? What a lovely fate for the Arabs that would've been, kind of happened to the Palestinians in a sense so maybe with more time the British could've managed to do it to all of them.

Its widely agreed that the Sykes-Picot framework of the Middle East is the root of many of the current tensions over there but it seems in England they still believe in the merit of the White Man's burden.
 
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Do you think they could see the future though? In the case that they couldn't, which empire would they prefer?

Yeah Sierre Leon, Sudan, Gambia, Egypt, and Uganda are all a picture of prosperity. And India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are exactly what comes to mind when people think "prosperous". Or are you thinking of the US, Canada, and Australia? The countries where the English settlers decimated the native populations and forced them onto reservations? What a lovely fate for the Arabs that would've been, kind of happened to the Palestinians in a sense so maybe with more time the British could've managed to do it to all of them.

Its widely agreed that the Sykes-Picot framework of the Middle East is the root of many of the current tensions in over there but is seems in England they still believe in the merit of the White Man's burden.

Did he forget that places like iraq were under british rule? Lol none of these problematic borders were created by the ottomans. Iraq looks like someone drew lines on a map using a school boy's geometry set.
 
Did he forget that places like iraq were under british rule?
I think his point is that it was under Ottoman rule for far longer and that the British did not have enough time to civilize the savages given their relatively brief rule over it.
Lol none of these problematic borders were created by the ottomans. Iraq looks like someone drew lines on a map using a school boy's geometry set.
Yeah like I said its widely understood that the Sykes-Picot framework for dividing the region is the root of many of its current instabilities but trying to convince an Englishman that their empire maybe wasn't so great for all its subject peoples is a tall order it seems.
 
Do you think they could see the future though? In the case that they couldn't, which empire would they prefer?

Yeah Sierre Leon, Sudan, Gambia, Egypt, and Uganda are all a picture of prosperity. And India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh are exactly what comes to mind when people think "prosperous". Or are you thinking of the US, Canada, and Australia? The countries where the English settlers decimated the native populations and forced them onto reservations? What a lovely fate for the Arabs that would've been, kind of happened to the Palestinians in a sense so maybe with more time the British could've managed to do it to all of them.

Its widely agreed that the Sykes-Picot framework of the Middle East is the root of many of the current tensions over there but it seems in England they still believe in the merit of the White Man's burden.


You're hilarious. I've answered that question a number of times already, facts and history are on my side.

Sure the agreement was a betrayal but it was nearly a century ago. Why have the Arabs not got their shit together in all that time? Instead blaming it on one major event is petty. They have never supported the Palestinians either. They've used them as a pawn and now they've stabbed them in the back by backing Israel. Pathetic.
There have been countries who've been nuked twice or been occupied and broken up. My city was bombed to bits but we don't cling onto blaming others.
The recent involvement of USA and Israel have been much more damaging. With wars in Iraq, Syria and the Arab spring have done much worse.

I've finally got around your debating tactic. Which's to constantly change the topic after you've been annihilated by me at every turn.
Good day to you, sir.
 
You're hilarious. I've answered that question a number of times already, facts and history are on my side.

Sure the agreement was a betrayal but it was nearly a century ago. Why have the Arabs not got their shit together in all that time? Instead blaming it on one major event is petty. They have never supported the Palestinians either. They've used them as a pawn and now they've stabbed them in the back by backing Israel. Pathetic.
There have been countries who've been nuked twice or been occupied and broken up. My city was bombed to bits but we don't cling onto blaming others.
The recent involvement of USA and Israel have been much more damaging. With wars in Iraq, Syria and the Arab spring have done much worse.

I've finally got around your debating tactic. Which's to constantly change the topic after you've been annihilated by me at every turn.
Good day to you, sir.
Lol, still dodging the question and avoiding the obvious reality. I'd never deny that US intervention had a terrible effect but that's not mutually exclusive to the fact that is acknowledged almost universally that Sykes-Picot is the root of much off the tension over there. But again, its a tall task to convince a Brit they weren't doing the world a favor by conquering and plundering it. Continue believing in the White Man's burden if you'd like though, just shows the extent of the ignorance the English have over the ill effects of their own past.
 
Lol, still dodging the question and avoiding the obvious reality. I'd never deny that US intervention had a terrible effect but that's not mutually exclusive to the fact that is acknowledged almost universally that Sykes-Picot is the root of much off the tension over there. But again, its a tall task to convince a Brit they weren't doing the world a favor by conquering and plundering it. Continue believing in the White Man's burden if you'd like though, just shows the extent of the ignorance the English have over the ill effects of their own past.


So it's someone else's fault that Arabs can't live harmoniously with each other? There are many countries that are diverse in religion and ethnicity but Arabs can't get along with people having slightly different beliefs even if they're of the same culture.

Western sectarian policies post WW2 have caused much more harm. We've encouraged divisionism through civil war and bloody conflicts which has caused irreconcilable differences between groups who got along well before each other.

Anyway, unlike you, I'm willing to accept opposing views(after I've clearly beaten you) and I actually agree with a few of the stuff you said.
 
So it's someone else's fault that Arabs can't live harmoniously with each other? There are many countries that are diverse in religion and ethnicity but Arabs can't get along with people having slightly different beliefs even if they're of the same culture.

Western sectarian policies post WW2 have caused much more harm. We've encouraged divisionism through civil war and bloody conflicts which has caused irreconcilable differences between groups who got along well before each other.

Anyway, unlike you, I'm willing to accept opposing views(after I've clearly beaten you) and I actually agree with a few of the stuff you said.
Haha, the way you pat yourself on the back is just so pathetic. Could your head go any further up your ass?

Anyway yeah the Cold War era didn't help matters at all no doubt but the instability that the region sees today is rooted heavily in order set up by the French and British during the interwar period. The sectarian policies started there in many cases as the colonial governments often favored one sect over another for positions in the administration.
 
Haha, the way you pat yourself on the back is just so pathetic. Could your head go any further up your ass?

Anyway yeah the Cold War era didn't help matters at all no doubt but the instability that the region sees today is rooted heavily in order set up by the French and British during the interwar period. The sectarian policies started there in many cases as the colonial governments often favored one sect over another for positions in the administration.

Oh gosh, I used to laugh at you but now I pity you.
You win. We're to be blamed for everything since 1066.
Now does that help that pitifully low self esteem of yours?



Btw, we did nothing wrong.


images
 
Oh gosh, I used to laugh at you but now I pity you.
You win. We're to be blamed for everything since 1066.
Now does that help that pitifully low self esteem of yours?



Btw, we did nothing wrong.


images
Like I said man, pat yourself on the back all you'd like but you've failed over and over again to actually address the substance of my posts. Its clear to anyone who knows anything about the region that someone who would claim the British ushered in "progressive" Arab nations and that the Arabs would've welcomed with open arms British colonialism if they could only see how "prosperous" they are in 2018 is laughably divorced from reality.
 
Yes, it’s a genocide and yes it happened. My mother’s mother was born in Erzurum and lost 16 siblings because of it before escaping to Uzbekistan where she met her husband who was from Artsakh. Another piece of land that we almost lost to the Turks, thankfully we got it back. Unfortunately Western Armenia is lost for good. Turks claim we backstabbed by trying to join Russia. How can you backstab somebody that treats you as a second class citizen and committed massacres on your people about 40 years before the Genocide happened.

I don’t understand the Turkish mindset. They refuse to believe the genocide happened, which was very well documented. Yet the Hamidian massacre happened before the genocide, yet they think their people aren’t capable of committing such an atrocity.
 
Long-delayed resolution condemning Armenian genocide may finally reach House floor
October 24, 2019​

mcgovernjames_010319gn_lead.jpg

The House is likely to take up a long-unsuccessful resolution to condemn the 1915-1917 Armenian genocide after House Democrats set it up to clear a key committee hurdle next week, according to Yahoo News.

The House Rules Committee is expected to take up the resolution as early as next week before it reaches the chamber floor, according to Yahoo.

"I'm proud that the Rules Committee will be considering this resolution next week," Committee Chairman Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) told Yahoo News. "Not acknowledging the genocide is a stain on our human rights record and sends the exact wrong message to human rights abusers around the world."

McGovern's district in the Worcester area includes the oldest Armenian American community in the U.S.

The resolution has failed to gain traction in the House for years due in large part to sensitivity around the issue in Turkey, a key U.S. ally. Now, however, the measure has added momentum amid widespread anger at Turkey's incursion into northeastern Syria following the U.S. withdrawal from the region.

The Ottoman Turkish government systematically killed about 1.5 million Armenians during the genocide, and before the Holocaust Adolf Hitler reportedly argued that the genocide of German Jews would go unpunished, saying "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?"

Turkey does not recognize the killings as acts of genocide and has for years lobbied against their recognition as such.

Congress has passed resolutions condemning the genocide, but it has been several decades since one passed.

Ronald Reagan is the only president to have acknowledged the genocide.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehil...armenian-genocide-may-finally-reach-house?amp
 
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Suck my SOAD, Erdogan:

 
Turkey says U.S. vote on Armenia genocide will damage ties
By Nevzat Devranoglu​

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ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkey condemned a decision by the U.S. House of Representatives to recognize the mass killings of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire as genocide, saying on Wednesday it would damage the "critical" relationship between the NATO allies.

Armenia praised Tuesday's vote, which Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan hailed on Twitter as "a bold step towards serving truth and historical #justice".

But in Turkey, government ministers and officials said the timing of the vote, after weeks of international criticism of Ankara's military incursion against Syrian Kurdish forces, showed it was politically motivated.

The Foreign Ministry said U.S. Ambassador David Satterfield had been summoned on Wednesday.

President Tayyip Erdogan, who is due to meet U.S. President Donald Trump at the White House in two weeks, said he had not decided yet whether the trip was going ahead.

Asked whether he would make the visit after recent developments, Erdogan said the issue remained "a question mark".

Speaking to lawmakers from his AK Party, Erdogan said the resolution won support because of the fallout in the United States over Ankara's operation in northeast Syria against the Kurdish YPG militia, which was the main U.S. partner in the battle against Islamic State in Syria.

"These efforts... were passed by the House of Representatives, using a negative air that has formed against our country among the American public," Erdogan said. "In a sense, they were being opportunistic."

Erdogan said an Armenian militant group killed more than 40 diplomats in attacks on Turkish missions in 21 countries in the 1970s and 1980s.

"We reject... unilateral judgments on events more than a century ago, that don't even mention Turkey's losses," he said.

Erdogan's communications director called Tuesday's vote deeply troubling. "Those who voted for this resolution will be responsible for the deterioration of a critical strategic relationship in a turbulent region," Fahrettin Altun said.

Altun repeated a call by Erdogan to form a historical commission to investigate the events.

Turkey accepts that many Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire were killed in clashes with Ottoman forces during World War One, but contests the figures and denies that the killings were systematically orchestrated and constitute a genocide.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1X917O
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50828179

Bump

Looks like the Donald has another thing to answer for

Trump says Armenia massacres were not genocide, directly contradicting Congress

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The Trump administration has said it does not consider the mass killings of Armenians in 1915 to be a genocide, contradicting a unanimous vote by the US Senate.

The historic vote last week incensed Turkey, which has always denied that the killings amounted to a genocide.

Turkey's foreign ministry on Friday summoned the US ambassador to express its anger over the vote, accusing the US of "politicising history".

Armenia says 1.5 million were killed in an effort to wipe out the ethnic group.

The killings took place in the waning days of the Ottoman Empire, the forerunner of modern-day Turkey.

"The position of the administration has not changed," said State Department spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus in a statement on Tuesday. "Our views are reflected in the president's definitive statement on this issue from last April," she said.

In a statement last April on the anniversary of the killings, Mr Trump said the US paid tribute to the victims of "one of the worst mass atrocities of the 20th century", but he did not use the word genocide. Instead he encouraged Armenians and Turks to "acknowledge and reckon with their painful history".
 
Why the Armenian Genocide Remains Unrecognized by the U.S. Despite Bipartisan Efforts
BY DAVID BRENNAN ON 4/24/20​

Friday marks Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day, on which the early 20th-century killing of more than 1.5 million Armenians is remembered worldwide.

The genocide, which occurred in the final years of the Ottoman Empire, is a contentious topic, still denied by Turkey— the Ottoman successor state. Official recognition of the massacre as a genocide doubles as an affront to the Turkish government, meaning many nations—including the U.S.—still refuse to do so.

In December, a diplomatic spat between the U.S. and Turkey gave lawmakers the cover to pass a non-binding resolution recognizing the incident as a genocide. Both the House and the Senate voted in favor, but the White House refused to take up either resolution, in line with long-established U.S. practice.

The Armenian Foreign Ministry issued a statement Friday condemning the "heinous crime, committed with the intent to destroy in whole the Armenian people and deprive them of their homeland." The ministry said the massacre was "the first genocide of the 20th century."

The killing of Ottoman Armenians stretched from roughly 1915 to 1923. The number of those killed is disputed—Armenian groups say the toll was as high as 1.5 million, while Turkey puts the number in the hundreds of thousands. Turkey maintains that those who died did so while fighting against Ottoman forces.

Huge numbers of Armenians were forcibly relocated from their homes to inhospitable lands such as the deserts of Syria and elsewhere during this period. Most of the victims died from starvation and exhaustion. Turkey maintains this does not constitute a genocide, but the collapsing Ottoman government executed several top officials for their role in the massacres.


The House and Senate broke with traditional U.S. policy in recognizing the persecution of the Armenians as a genocide in December. The votes came soon after NATO ally Turkey launched an invasion of northeastern Syria to attack Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) troops—led by Kurdish militias that Turkey considers terrorist groups—and attempting to clear them from a stretch of the Turkish border.

The SDF bore the brunt of the Western offensive against Islamic State militants in Syria, fighting to squash the so-called caliphate with U.S. and coalition support, taking some 12,000 casualties in the process.

President Donald Trump ordered U.S. forces to withdraw from northeastern Syria just before Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced his offensive, prompting criticism that Trump effectively gave the operation a green light.

Relations between the U.S. and Turkey were already strained, partially due to Ankara's purchase of a Russian anti-aircraft system despite protests from Washington. Turkey went ahead with the purchase, and, in response, the U.S. kicked the country out of the F-35 stealth jet program.

Regardless, the White House did not take up the House or Senate resolution recognizing the Armenian massacres as a genocide. At the time, Democratic Senator Bob Menendez—a sponsor of the bill that passed the Senate unanimously—told Newsweek the atrocity was a "horrifying factual reality that should never be denied."

Menendez said he was "deeply disappointed that both President Trump and Secretary [Mike] Pompeo have yet to find their moral compass on this issue, and that they insist on allowing Turkey to have a veto on our own domestic decision."

Turkey condemned both the House and Senate resolutions. The Foreign Ministry condemned the House vote as a "shameful" and "meaningless political step" designed to appeal to the "Armenian lobby and anti-Turkey groups."

When the Senate unanimously approved its bill, Turkish Communication Director Fahrettin Altun said the development threatened "the future of our bilateral relationship."


In December, State Department spokesperson Morgan Ortagus said the Trump administration's position on genocide recognition "has not changed."

She directed journalists towards a statement made by Trump on Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day 2019, in which he honored "the memory of those who suffered in one of the worst mass atrocities of the 20th century." Trump's statement did not use the word "genocide."

A State Department spokesperson told Newsweek that the administration's position on the matter has not changed. "As President Trump's official statement earlier today makes clear, the U.S. government acknowledges and mourns the one and a half million Armenians who were deported, massacred, and marched to their deaths at the end of the Ottoman Empire," the spokesperson explained.


Trump's statement read, "On this day of remembrance, we pay respect to those who suffered and lost their lives, while also renewing our commitment to fostering a more humane and peaceful world."

The president added, "We welcome efforts by the Armenians and Turks to acknowledge and reckon with their painful history.  On this day, we believe it is our obligation to remember those who suffered and perished and reaffirm our commitment to protecting vulnerable religious and ethnic minorities around the world."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...d-us-despite-bipartisan-efforts-1500038?amp=1
 
Biden Should Keep His Word and Recognize the Armenian Genocide

Every presidential election cycle is met with promises from candidates vowing to recognize the Armenian genocide, which is still denied by Turkey to this day. Whether it is on the campaign trail in search of votes or holding fundraisers, candidates from George W. Bush to Barack Obama have all promised to recognize the Armenian genocide as president. But once in office, they capitulate to Turkish pressure and bow to the altar of realpolitik by using euphemistic language and verbal gymnastics to describe what a vast majority of historians acknowledge as the first genocide of the 20th century. For deniers like Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Armenian genocide is fake news and one big conspiracy despite historical evidence.

For Joe Biden, the Armenian genocide is an issue that is visceral and a part of his political career. As chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Biden cosponsored numerous bills including the Armenian Genocide Resolution (S. Res.106) and introduced legislation condemning the murder of Turkish Armenian journalist and human rights advocate Hrant Dink for his advocacy of the genocide. Most recently, Biden pledged to recognize the Armenian genocide and make human rights a priority if elected president, following the campaign playbook of his predecessors.
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-shou...gnize-armenian-genocide-opinion-1565227?amp=1
 
Turkey on tenterhooks for Biden’s decision on Armenian genocide recognition
CALINE MALEK AND ARNAB NEIL SENGUPTA | 23 March 2021​

The Biden administration is considering acknowledging the genocide of ethnic Armenians by the Ottoman Empire, Ian Bremmer of GZero Media has reported in the lead-up to Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day, April 24.

In the event, Joe Biden would become the first US president to recognize the systematic killing of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians from 1915 onwards in modern-day Turkey as a “genocide,” a step already taken by the Senate and the House of Representatives in 2019.

The adoption of that measure by the two US chambers of Congress came at a time when Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s military intervention in northern Syria had strained already tense relations between his government and the US political establishment. This time around, in addition to continuing friction in US-Turkish relations, some 38 senators have sent a letter urging the president to recognize the genocide.

The atrocities started with the arrest of Armenian intellectuals in Constantinople in 1915 and continued with a centralized program of deportations, murder, pillage and rape until 1923. Ordinary Armenians were then driven from their homes and sent on death marches through the Mesopotamian desert without food or water.

Ottoman death squads massacred Armenians, with only 388,000 left in the empire by 1923 from 2 million in 1914. (Turkey estimates the total number of deaths to be 300,000.)

Many Armenians were deported to Syria and the Iraqi city of Mosul. Today descendants of the survivors are scattered across the world, with large diasporas in Russia, the US, France, Argentina and Lebanon.

Turkey admits that many Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire were killed in clashes with Ottoman forces during the First World War, but disputes the figures and denies that the killings were systematically orchestrated and constitute a genocide.

Getting access to vital Ottoman sources is a daunting challenge, while the language barrier makes access to Armenian sources hard for Ottomanists and comparativists alike.

Consequently, some scholars argue, Armenians have often been depicted as passive victims of violence, ignoring their active resistance during the genocide.

“This misrepresentation is due to a combination of political realities, methodological challenges, and the inaccessibility of crucial primary sources. The Turkish state’s denial of the Armenian genocide was a major hurdle,” Khatchig Mouradian, a lecturer in Columbia University’s Department of Middle Eastern, South Asian and African Studies, told the website Columbia News in a recent interview.

In a new book, Mouradian has challenged depictions of Armenians as passive victims of violence and mere objects of Western humanitarianism. “The Resistance Network” is a history of an underground network of humanitarians, missionaries and diplomats in Ottoman Syria who helped to save the lives of thousands during the Armenian genocide.

“I weave together the stories of hundreds of survivors and resisters as they pushed back against the genocidal machine in Aleppo, Raqqa, Deir ez-Zor, and in concentration camps stretching along the lower Euphrates,” Mouradian said. “In doing so, I place survivor accounts in conversation with—and sometimes in rebellion against—the scholarship and accepted wisdom on mass violence, humanitarianism and resistance.”

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1830636/middle-east
 
Soo... Are we allies with Turkey this week or not?

It's all so confusing
 
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