Trying to integrate cleans with 5/3/1

[thirdlastchance]

Hey everyone,

I've just recently started incorporating cleans into my routine. The problem is that I would also like to continue along with my progression in deadlifts and squats (and OHP and BP though I'm not as concerned with these) using the 5/3/1 method. How do some sherdoggers do it? Does this seem like a reasonable template?

Monday:
Deadlift (5/3/1)
BP (5/3/1)
Row
Core

Wednesday:
Cleans
OHP (5/3/1)
Pullups

Friday
Squats (5/3/1)
Lunges/Bulgarian Split Squats
Core

I am a complete beginner to cleans, though, so I might be underestimating their effects on recovery, particularly as it relates to CNS burnout. Is this a recipe for overtraining? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[CRZA]

I would put them before the squats. Cleans will tire out your shoulders, so your OHP wont be as optimal.

From wendler himself:
"Question: Can I use power cleans (or something similar) in this program? If so, where would you put them?
Answer: Yes, this is a great idea. I’d recommend doing power cleans, hang cleans, power snatches or hang snatches if want to choose an Olympic movement. If you want to do these along with the regular training, I’d recommend doing them before you perform your squat or deadlift workout."

 

[thirdlastchance]

Hey, thanks for the response. wow, an endorsement from mr. wendler himself. Wouldn't putting cleans before squats or deads hurt those, though? Perhaps switch the placement of OHP and BP so that BP is after cleans instead?

 

[CRZA]

I wouldnt recommend doing cleans before any upper body movement.
In my experience, my upper body lifts suffer greatly when doing them after a clean / snatch session. My lower body usually feel more warmed up and flexible after performing the olympic lifts, so it actually helps me.

So, Unless your doing serious numbers when cleaning, it wont hurt your squat and deadlift, it will most likely serve as a efficient warm up.

 

[belph]

i always did cleans before deadlifting. i remember reading a wendler article where he said try them before deadlifting specifically i think. i'll look it up just in case.


EDIT: i found the article and it turns out what he said was. "These aren't going to hurt your squat or deadlift in the least bit; for some this might actually increase their deadlift due to the extra upper back work. I usually have people do these as the first exercise of the day, right before they squat or deadlift."

its kind of pointless because CRZA has a similar quote up there,but i figure since it said it might help your deadlift it was worth posting.

 

[thirdlastchance]

Hey, thanks CRZA and belphegor13 for all your assistance!

Since I'm still a beginner in regards to olympic lifting, do you think there'd be any detrimental effects for me doing cleans before squats AND deadlifts? I'm probably going to move core over to wednesday to make monday and friday easy and add dips that day as well.

 

[belph]

Hey, thanks CRZA and belphegor13 for all your assistance!

Since I'm still a beginner in regards to olympic lifting, do you think there'd be any detrimental effects for me doing cleans before squats AND deadlifts? I'm probably going to move core over to wednesday to make monday and friday easy and add dips that day as well.

i clean before squats and deadlifts ,so i would assume its fine. if you can check out glen pendlays form videos it has both the snatch and clean and jerk. i would give you the link but i am on a different pc.

 

[toonie]

I don't see it having detrimental effects. Since you're new to them, you're pretty much going to be doing a lot of form work. The most you'll be starting out with is the bar and some change.

Plus, I clean for 5 sets of 3 before I squat every week. I squat for 5 sets 5. I haven't had any problems.

Also, I've seen some people use (power)cleans as a warm-up to deadlifts.

 

[thirdlastchance]

hey belphegor, the vids from california strength academy? Those were the first ones I watched, and then found some vids from Smitty Diesel (always been a fan of the diesel crew). Definitely great stuff. Any other vids you'd recommend?

thanks toonie for the response. Would you stay with ~3 reps as being the upper range of the number of reps you'd include in 1 set? Figure with technical lifts you'd want to not maximally exert yourself, so keep the reps low?

 

[toonie]

hey belphegor, the vids from california strength academy? Those were the first ones I watched, and then found some vids from Smitty Diesel (always been a fan of the diesel crew). Definitely great stuff. Any other vids you'd recommend?

thanks toonie for the response. Would you stay with ~3 reps as being the upper range of the number of reps you'd include in 1 set? Figure with technical lifts you'd want to not maximally exert yourself, so keep the reps low?

3 reps should be the most you perform. Not because its so technical that you don't want to maximally exert yourself, but because since it's so technical, fatigue lends itself to poor form.

 

[belph]

hey belphegor, the vids from california strength academy?

pretty sure thats it.

 

[thirdlastchance]

thanks for the responses, guys. Going to incorporate cleans into my 3 day split before squats and deads for low-rep sets. Will let you all know how it goes. I'm so excited to start this new routine!

 

[turbozed]

Did Wendler indicate whether adding cleans to the front end of the 5/3/1 workout means you should take some volume away from the assistance exercises later?

 

[belph]

Did Wendler indicate whether adding cleans to the front end of the 5/3/1 workout means you should take some volume away from the assistance exercises later?

i do not believe he did.