Economy Trump's April 2nd Tariffs

[NickNick]

Congress would need and take away tariff powers from the president which they granted in the Trade Expansion act of 1962. I think that might be enough to regain trust of our trade partners.

Of course that would require them to actually do their job; and even still it wouldn't happen under this administration without a veto proof majority, since Donald wouldn't like it if they tried to take away his favorite toy.

Congress should step in now but Trump has eternal loyalty from all republicans so it doesn't matter, he can do whatever he wants at this point.

How the President Is Misusing Emergency Powers to Impose Worldwide Tariffs

Concocting an emergency to advance economic and foreign policy goals is an abuse of power.

www.brennancenter.org

 

[Deorum]

When people talk about how US manufacturing is dead I can't help but think of the defense industrial complex and how US arms remain the best and most sought after in the world which then gives us further leverage. For example the Swedish Gripen fighter jet is mostly an indigenously built plane but it uses a US jet engine so its subject to export controls by the US.

People like Vance want Americans building toasters and trinkets when we've already upgraded to jet fighters and chips.

Taking charge: Manufacturers support growth with active workforce strategies

Manufacturers are drawing on innovation and an ecosystem approach to help improve the worker experience and to also attract and retain employees.

www2.deloitte.com

US Manufacturing Could Need as Many as 3.8 Million New Employees by 2033, According to Deloitte and The Manufacturing Institute

Study finds that 1.9 million jobs could be left unfilled, underscoring the need for employee-focused strategies to keep up with growth.

www2.deloitte.com

 

[Hit-N-Run]

Because once the EU is at war with Russia, they will have no choice but to trust the U.S. again…

What???? This is one of the more stupid things I’ve seen on this thread.

Where have you been the last 4 years? Conventional Russian military can’t even take out Ukraine! It’s been completely proven Russian military is shit. EU would fuck Russia up.

 

[syct23]

No they don't have to lol
Russia can't take over Ukraine with a small amount of proxy help from the EU.
Full EU forces would force Putin to push the button and at that point, nothing else is relevant.

That’s the plan,

Trump is forcing the EU to unite and take on Russia.

That leaves China for the U.S.

Trump wants and needs this war to stay in power, no election during war time he will push. That is why he is speeding things up with letting Ukraine fall. If Ukraine falls or Russia wins, that springs the trap for China to go for Taiwan.

Once China goes for Taiwan, trump will have no problem pretending to protect Taiwan. He is hoping the American people will turn on China by then with the trade war, by then the people will have no problem with a war with China.

The Biden admin almost ruined everything by allowing Ukraine to hold. This put a hold in Chinas plans regarding Taiwan, it started to not look worth it. Now it’s back on the menu.

That is why trump needs all of the bottlenecks, green land, canals, canadas northern passage.

It is coming

 

[cincymma79]

We don't have any tariffs on you that I'm aware of and you're still putting them on us.

I just looked up whogivesashitistan and you don’t tariff us

 

[cincymma79]

That’s the plan,

Trump is forcing the EU to unite and take on Russia.

That leaves China for the U.S.

Trump wants and needs this war to stay in power, no election during war time he will push. That is why he is speeding things up with letting Ukraine fall. If Ukraine falls or Russia wins, that springs the trap for China to go for Taiwan.

Once China goes for Taiwan, trump will have no problem pretending to protect Taiwan. He is hoping the American people will turn on China by then with the trade war, by then the people will have no problem with a war with China.

The Biden admin almost ruined everything by allowing Ukraine to hold. This put a hold in Chinas plans regarding Taiwan, it started to not look worth it. Now it’s back on the menu.

That is why trump needs all of the bottlenecks, green land, canals, canadas northern passage.

It is coming

This is fucking stupid top to bottom

 

[syct23]

This is fucking stupid top to bottom

I played that scenario to perfection on a game of Risk last night, and I’m pretty sure that’s how the trump admin has got to this point as well..

Super Serious.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

China to US: "new phone who dis"

Yet the soy bean farmers will still cheer for Trump because of reasons.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I hope this stupid dick measuring competition just keeps going.

Trump gonna hit em with the "infinity +1" tariff.

 

[Jeffy37]

You sound poor!

Thank you big boy

 

[aerius]

When people talk about how US manufacturing is dead I can't help but think of the defense industrial complex and how US arms remain the best and most sought after in the world which then gives us further leverage. For example the Swedish Gripen fighter jet is mostly an indigenously built plane but it uses a US jet engine so its subject to export controls by the US.

People like Vance want Americans building toasters and trinkets when we've already upgraded to jet fighters and chips.

The bolded part actually ties into my previous post. Chips and fighter jets don't exist in a vacuum, rather, they're at the very top of a manufacturing pyramid and require all sorts of more basic manufacturing to make them possible. And I'm not just talking about the parts, it applies to the machines & tooling as well.

Let's go back to the Tesla factory in my previous post to illustrate my point. The large press that's used for stamping out chassis parts, why aren't they made in the US? Well, that's because there isn't a heavy press manufacturer in the US. And why is that you might ask? Because the market for presses in the US isn't particularly large or healthy, and it doesn't support a manufacturer making giant presses worth tens or hundreds of millions each. But what does that have to do with toasters? Take a look at a toaster, washing machine, lawn mower, fridge, or one of the dozens of other things in your home which are made of..wait for it...stamped metal parts. Where are they made? Almost certainly not in the US.

The same is true for many things in high end manufacturing, the top end can't survive on its own, it still needs the lower tiers to fill out business and stay solvent.

 

[BEAST]

I played that scenario to perfection on a game of Risk last night, and I’m pretty sure that’s how the trump admin has got to this point as well..

Super Serious.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Taking charge: Manufacturers support growth with active workforce strategies

Manufacturers are drawing on innovation and an ecosystem approach to help improve the worker experience and to also attract and retain employees.

www2.deloitte.com

US Manufacturing Could Need as Many as 3.8 Million New Employees by 2033, According to Deloitte and The Manufacturing Institute

Study finds that 1.9 million jobs could be left unfilled, underscoring the need for employee-focused strategies to keep up with growth.

www2.deloitte.com

See you follow these macroeconomic trends through high quality industry and journalistic sources so you can see how US manufacturing has and continues to evolve and grow. But for a lot of Americans the perception of the decline in US manufacturing is tied much more to nostalgia for some supposed Golden Age rather than reality. The old factories and the towns built around them are gone therefore manufacturing itself must've declined, like seeing an abandoned basketball hoop in someone's yard and thinking "wow how sad, kids used to play ball" when in fact the kid who lived there went on to play in the NBA.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The bolded part actually ties into my previous post. Chips and fighter jets don't exist in a vacuum, rather, they're at the very top of a manufacturing pyramid and require all sorts of more basic manufacturing to make them possible. And I'm not just talking about the parts, it applies to the machines & tooling as well.

Let's go back to the Tesla factory in my previous post to illustrate my point. The large press that's used for stamping out chassis parts, why aren't they made in the US? Well, that's because there isn't a heavy press manufacturer in the US. And why is that you might ask? Because the market for presses in the US isn't particularly large or healthy, and it doesn't support a manufacturer making giant presses worth tens or hundreds of millions each. But what does that have to do with toasters? Take a look at a toaster, washing machine, lawn mower, fridge, or one of the dozens of other things in your home which are made of..wait for it...stamped metal parts. Where are they made? Almost certainly not in the US.

The same is true for many things in high end manufacturing, the top end can't survive on its own, it still needs the lower tiers to fill out business and stay solvent.

To be clear I completely agree and its for these reasons that I think the trade war to bring back manufacturing is silly. Not only do we have a healthy, high tech manufacturing sector but that sector is deeply dependent on inputs from our trading partners so that this trade war threatens to unravel US manufacturing rather than reinvigorate it.

 

[aerius]

To be clear I completely agree and its for these reasons that I think the trade war to bring back manufacturing is silly. Not only do we have a healthy, high tech manufacturing sector but that sector is deeply dependent on inputs from our trading partners so that this trade war threatens to unravel US manufacturing rather than reinvigorate it.

I see things a bit differently. The US being as reliant as it is on foreign partners isn't healthy or secure. Yes we get the cutting edge tech, but there's nothing under it to support the industry should things go south. We do need to bring back some of the mid range and entry level manufacturing as well to round things out and provide a sustainable environment for the high end industry & manufacturers.

If we look at Omsktransmash over in Russia for example, they make washing machines, tractors, metal castings, and a whole bunch of other basic to intermediate level products in peacetime. When the war started they switched some of their production over to tanks, rocket launchers, and artillery. A lot of Russian factories are dual use like that, which is why they can out-produce all of NATO put together.

 

[cincymma79]

I played that scenario to perfection on a game of Risk last night, and I’m pretty sure that’s how the trump admin has got to this point as well..

Super Serious.

I think he’ll take Mexico and Canada so he can get five armies every turn then trade Kamchatka with Asia back and forth until he has enough cards to make it to Australia.

 

[syct23]

I think he’ll take Mexico and Canada so he can get five armies every turn then trade Kamchatka with Asia back and forth until he has enough cards to make it to Australia.

That’s what I thought too at first, but you have to remember the tariffs!

I found a solution of randomly adding and taking away the number of dice a player could use throughout the game.

It changed everything.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You know what the tragedy of this shit is? It isn't even America "lashing out" as empire declines, and it organically loses influence. China was getting fucking smoked and left in the dust post-pandemic. If anything, all this is going to do is give them a second wind, particularly when going out of your way to alienate, strain, and potentially sever existing multifaceted alliances.

Yes exactly. If you were following the "imperial rivalry" between the US and China before the pandemic many were bullish on China and bearish on the US. But that completely flipped through the experience of the pandemic where China lagged under zero COVID policies and austerity while the US surged under a robust stimulus package that even economists thought too big but which left the US with less inflation and stronger growth than virtually every developed economy.

Your comment there about the perception of all this as as a declining American empire lashing out reminds me of comments I've seen from progressives in the wake of the second Trump term about how we're living through imperial collapse and need to form mutual aid societies and start to grow our own food and whatnot. I'd bet you've seen such comments and I find it all so insane, the privileged ramblings of first worlders who would wilt if they actually had "return to the land" and would never have the political will to form the kind of mutual aid institutions they claim to care about.

These are people yearning for meaning who can't accept that all their civic duty requires of them is to be informed of the hum drum of routine politics, vote for the lesser evil in elections, and maybe throw a few bucks and volunteer hours towards your preferred candidates or minor parties. Nope, its gotta be the grand resistance to imperialism you see in YA novels or else its too boring to keep their attention.

I see things a bit differently. The US being as reliant as it is on foreign partners isn't healthy or secure. Yes we get the cutting edge tech, but there's nothing under it to support the industry should things go south. We do need to bring back some of the mid range and entry level manufacturing as well to round things out and provide a sustainable environment for the high end industry & manufacturers.

If we look at Omsktransmash over in Russia for example, they make washing machines, tractors, metal castings, and a whole bunch of other basic to intermediate level products in peacetime. When the war started they switched some of their production over to tanks, rocket launchers, and artillery. A lot of Russian factories are dual use like that, which is why they can out-produce all of NATO put together.

Well I am more of a free trade guy so I don't see an issue with relying on partners so long as they are close allies, what economists call "friendshoring"

For example the UK in WWII didn't need to rely exclusively on its own manufacturing when it could ally with the USSR and USA. That's how I see the US in a world where our allies have taken more market share in relevant manufacturing industries. This is why I think Biden blocking the Nippon Steel acquisition was a massive mistake. Of course if a Chinese firm was buying US Steel that'd be one thing but Japan is almost certainly one our greatest bulwarks against Chinese aggressions so integrating our steel industries only ties us closer and reduces our reliance on Chinese steel.

 

[idrankyourbeer]

I think he’ll take Mexico and Canada so he can get five armies every turn then trade Kamchatka with Asia back and forth until he has enough cards to make it to Australia.

nah. he'll just take australia right from the start and then play the hiding turtle.

it's a legit strategy lol

 

[Darkavius]

I see things a bit differently. The US being as reliant as it is on foreign partners isn't healthy or secure. Yes we get the cutting edge tech, but there's nothing under it to support the industry should things go south. We do need to bring back some of the mid range and entry level manufacturing as well to round things out and provide a sustainable environment for the high end industry & manufacturers.

If we look at Omsktransmash over in Russia for example, they make washing machines, tractors, metal castings, and a whole bunch of other basic to intermediate level products in peacetime. When the war started they switched some of their production over to tanks, rocket launchers, and artillery. A lot of Russian factories are dual use like that, which is why they can out-produce all of NATO put together.

This is a sound idea but it would never fly with corporations and that's the main problem. The cost of doing entry and mid-level manufacturing increases immediately and people are on CNBC this morning talking about consuming the most for the cheapest cost.

One thing that could be done much quicker though is if you want America to produce things the country cannot just be thinking only on actual products but things like software as well. I know corporations won't let this fly as well but a lot of software and tech type jobs can be done here. It would hurt countries like India and the Philippines but we do have capable people on American soil that can do tech work now, but it would cost corporations too much so it will never get done.

All that to say if America is serious about bringing manufacturing and production here corporations need to be straightened out first because they are the one that will limit what America can do. Need an example, look at the stories of customers that have had to fight against John Deere because John Deere fights against Right to Repair.