Trump to end birthright citizenship?

He most certainly did not.

I'm not sure if it's a distraction or just a convenient election narrative. I think this one would have happened with or without the election, and with or without the terrorism last week.

Perhaps you’re right he didn’t know how an EO in birthright citizenship could or couldn’t work as far 14th goes.

But I definitely think this stupid idea and the other handful of somewhat random ideas like another deficit building tax cut, sending troops to the border, etc. are all coming at once because he’s gotten very frustrated with the topics the headlines have been dominated by lately. I think he watches the head lines obsessively and will do or say pretty much anything to get himself back in them in a way he likes.
 
Liberals be like "Trump has to adhere to the 14th amendment it's in the constitution!!!"

Also liberals "They need to change the 2nd amendment because I don't like it!!!!"
 
Liberals be like "Trump has to adhere to the 14th amendment it's in the constitution!!!"

Also liberals "They need to change the 2nd amendment because I don't like it!!!!"

Those two positions aren't even remotely mutually exclusive

{<jordan}
 
What I don't understand is why Donald Trump has to lie about it.
He says no other country in the world grants birthright citizenship. There are 30 countries that grant birthright citizenship.
Why does he have to lie?
Why does he have to lie?
Why does he have to lie?

Is lying possibly helping him?
 
I never suggested they were, and you're quite aware of that.

You literally just implied that holding both simultaneously is hypocritical.

I think "obey the constitution" and "I want to change the constitution via the legal process" is quite tenable. Thinking executive orders can abrogate constitutional amendments though, that's a paddlin.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED amirite?
 
Is birth tourism really an issue?

Some rich Asian gives birth here, pays the entire hospital bill, then goes back to China for the next 18 or so years.

Then when the kid is ready for college, he comes here and pays the resident instead of international tuition. Is that really a big deal? Yeah, his parents didn't pay into the tax base all those years but they also didn't use up any resources. Then after 4 years you have another middle-class professional ready to contribute to the economy. Of course, he won't be using student loans or getting any sort of tuition help.

International tuition is similar to out-of-state tuition anyway so in the end, this is all about a few kids getting in-state tuition instead of out-of-state. This can't make the list of top 500 issues in the country.
 
What I don't understand is why Donald Trump has to lie about it.
He says no other country in the world grants birthright citizenship. There are 30 countries that grant birthright citizenship.
Why does he have to lie?
Why does he have to lie?
Why does he have to lie?

Is lying possibly helping him?

He lies to his supporters because he can get away with it. It’s a truly bizarre spectacle to witness. They almost like being lied to. A comprehensive study should be done on Trump supporters so we can see once and for all what deficiencies they have in their brains.

Instead of ridiculing them we should try and understand them
 
Is birth tourism really an issue?

Some rich Asian gives birth here, pays the entire hospital bill, then goes back to China for the next 18 or so years.

Then when the kid is ready for college, he comes here and pays the resident instead of international tuition. Is that really a big deal? Yeah, his parents didn't pay into the tax base all those years but they also didn't use up any resources. Then after 4 years you have another middle-class professional ready to contribute to the economy. Of course, he won't be using student loans or getting any sort of tuition help.

International tuition is similar to out-of-state tuition anyway so in the end, this is all about a few kids getting in-state tuition instead of out-of-state. This can't make the list of top 500 issues in the country.

So this is ok with you, but Trump using business loopholes in the tax code to save himself some money is wrong?

GTFO
 
Is birth tourism really an issue?

Some rich Asian gives birth here, pays the entire hospital bill, then goes back to China for the next 18 or so years.

Then when the kid is ready for college, he comes here and pays the resident instead of international tuition. Is that really a big deal? Yeah, his parents didn't pay into the tax base all those years but they also didn't use up any resources. Then after 4 years you have another middle-class professional ready to contribute to the economy. Of course, he won't be using student loans or getting any sort of tuition help.

International tuition is similar to out-of-state tuition anyway so in the end, this is all about a few kids getting in-state tuition instead of out-of-state. This can't make the list of top 500 issues in the country.
Also ignores that the US is one of two countries that requires its citizens to pay taxes regardless of where they are in the world. "They're gonna come back and use all our resources" is pretty stupid when they're going to be paying for them anyway.
 
He lies to his supporters because he can get away with it. It’s a truly bizarre spectacle to witness. They almost like being lied to. A comprehensive study should be done on Trump supporters so we can see once and for all what deficiencies they have in their brains.

Instead of ridiculing them we should try and understand them
There's nothing more to understand that what we see in sports.
Team mentality; when my team wins, so do I, and when the other guy loses, I beat him. If a player is infracted, it's bullshit! If the other guy is infracted, the judge made the right call.

Add in a cult of personality and a bunch of voters who will vote for anyone who echoes their own sentiments, regardless of their incredible shortcomings...
 
Section 1 of the 14th amendment reads:

The key phrase is "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". The constitiutional question is whether illegal immigrants are subject to our jurisdiction.

They are not. This was explained by the drafters of the 14th Amendment when it was being debated in congress. Aliens were explicitly stated as NOT being under the jurisdiction thereof.
 
Liberals be like "Trump has to adhere to the 14th amendment it's in the constitution!!!"

Also liberals "They need to change the 2nd amendment because I don't like it!!!!"
You should have brought up DACA instead
 
People in reservations were under tribal leadership jurisdiction that has been explained before.

If Elk had a son after he left the reservation the son would be citizen.

It has been explained, but you simply refuse to recognize the implications. I will repeat it again, and this time, try actually responding.

1.) When was the 14th Amendment written, and why?

2.) If the 14th Amendment was designed to grant automatic citizenship to anyone born in the U.S., why was the clause born in the U.S. AND "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" stipulated? Logic implies that the additional clause "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" would have been stricken from the law if automatic citizenship by birth was the desired outcome, yes? To simplify, why stipulate the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" if birth was all that was required?

3.) If children are born to foreign invaders on U.S. soil, are they automatically granted U.S. citizenship?

4.) If children are born to foreign diplomats on U.S. soil, are they automatically granted U.S. citizenship?

5.) If a woman gives birth to a child while flying over U.S. airspace or in U.S. waters, is that child automatically granted U.S. citizenship?

Additionally, as to whether or not Aliens qualify for birthright citizenship, I refer you to the words of the men who actually drafted the bill for the 14th Amendment, and who gave specific answers as to whether or not Aliens were to be given birthright citizenship.

Senator Jacob Howard, a drafter of the 14th Amendment, addressed the concern as follows: “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.”

Senator Lyman Trumbull said: “The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens. That means, “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” Trumbull went on to say “What do we mean by subject to the jurisdiction of the United States? Not owing allegiance to anybody else.”

Senator Reverdy Johnson clarified the language in the 14th Amendment even further when he said: “Now, all that this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign Power for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us, shall be considered as citizens of the United States.”

Why do you continue to ignore the facts?
 
why do democrats love the flood of illegals coming into this country ?

Living in a place filled with tons of white folks is boooooring. The food is pretty garbage, same with the music, and to some extent the overall culture is just too white bread stale. The population of women aren’t as diverse and beautiful. Lots of problems.
 
Perhaps you’re right he didn’t know how an EO in birthright citizenship could or couldn’t work as far 14th goes.

But I definitely think this stupid idea and the other handful of somewhat random ideas like another deficit building tax cut, sending troops to the border, etc. are all coming at once because he’s gotten very frustrated with the topics the headlines have been dominated by lately. I think he watches the head lines obsessively and will do or say pretty much anything to get himself back in them in a way he likes.
It's hard to agree here because Trump's silliness is ever-present. Whether he's getting good or bad press he always seems desperate and distracting.
 
There's nothing more to understand that what we see in sports.
Team mentality; when my team wins, so do I, and when the other guy loses, I beat him. If a player is infracted, it's bullshit! If the other guy is infracted, the judge made the right call.

Add in a cult of personality and a bunch of voters who will vote for anyone who echoes their own sentiments, regardless of their incredible shortcomings...

It becomes really dangerous when politics becomes a zero sum game like you described. That’s why I as a liberal would much rather have a moderate in office at all levels then these fringe politicians. I don’t hate the other side and never will and I cannot understand how a guy like that DiSantis in Florida can run ads like he is against that Cullem I think his name is. If you have to actually use racist ads and rhetoric to win then you are likely in the wrong business
 
It becomes really dangerous when politics becomes a zero sum game like you described. That’s why I as a liberal would much rather have a moderate in office at all levels then these fringe politicians. I don’t hate the other side and never will and I cannot understand how a guy like that DiSantis in Florida can run ads like he is against that Cullem I think his name is. If you have to actually use racist ads and rhetoric to win then you are likely in the wrong business
Ah, but slinging mud in politics is old stuff. There was a politician in... Florida?... who campaigned against another by saying he had a mixed race child with a negro. It'll never change because it's often a winning tactic (see the demonization of Hillary, who I wasn't happy to vote for but isn't the devil she was branded as)
 
I've read the case (ie, "the link"), despite the drooling condescension that pervades the entirety of your post. Wong is much more on point than the Slaughterhouse Cases. It was more specific to this issue and decided later.

Wong was born to parents that were legally and permanently domiciled in the United States at the time of his birth (despite what the left-wing hacks of wikipedia have to say). In that case, there was more expansive language used on birthright citizenship, but it was neither the holding of the case nor does it operate as binding precedent on the Court or as the law of the land.

In Wong Kim Ark the definition of “subject to the jurisdiction” was not part of the holding but only passing dicta. In Elk v. Wilkins, the court was specifically asked to address “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,” and held it meant: The persons declared to be citizens are “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” The evident meaning of these last words is not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction and owing them (U.S.) direct and immediate allegiance. And the words relate to the time of birth in the one case, as they do to the time of naturalization in the other. Persons not thus subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at the time of birth cannot become so afterwards except by being naturalized, either individually, as by proceedings under the naturalization acts, or collectively, as by the force of a treaty by which foreign territory is acquired.

This ruling was in keeping with the 14th Amendment as its drafters originally explained when the bill was first introduced and debated.

Senator Jacob Howard, a drafter of the 14th Amendment, addressed the concern as follows: “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.”

Senator Lyman Trumbull said: “The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens. That means, “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” Trumbull went on to say “What do we mean by subject to the jurisdiction of the United States? Not owing allegiance to anybody else.”

Senator Reverdy Johnson clarified the language in the 14th Amendment even further when he said: “Now, all that this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign Power for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us, shall be considered as citizens of the United States.”
 
Ah, but slinging mud in politics is old stuff. There was a politician in... Florida?... who campaigned against another by saying he had a mixed race child with a negro. It'll never change because it's often a winning tactic (see the demonization of Hillary, who I wasn't happy to vote for but isn't the devil she was branded as)

Ya I know but I really wish we would get away from it. The right actually believes the stuff which riles them up to the point of violence. After all we are all Americans and I would think we mostly want the same things. The only political climate is getting a little crazy know and hopefully after Trump we can all just settle down a bit. Probably wishful thinking but I’m a sucker for a happy ending
 
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