Trump: Take away the gun first, due process second.

Swing said:
Oh man, that picture.
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Reminds me of the American Gods scene where the god Vulcan has a gun cult.

Corbin-Bernsen-in-American-Gods-Season-1-Episode-6.jpg


Reality beats fiction yet again.
 
By the way, isn't this literally what Hitler did? Gun control? That's what right wingers told me anyway.
 
Trotsky said:
You're completely mischaracterizing Trump's "solutions" as narrowly effecting mass shooting scenarios, which make up about a tiny <0.1% of shooting-related police interventions.

Finland doesn't have our problems with disparate treatment of minority populations. Time and time again, these discretion-infused firearm policies have disparately affected blacks, Latinos, and Middle Easterners. Our system of due process, as increasingly flimsy as it has become, is the only institutional blockade between disparate oppression and American minorities.
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What do you think sensible and effective gun policy looks like?
 
The senile retard just blurts out any old idea. I think the White House Day Care filter should move to 100% activation time. He would remove free speech as well because it hurts his fee fees and then he needs even more participation trophies.
 
oldshadow said:
True but that plan would be to take as much as ahe possible could from gun owners.
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Could you provide a link to this plan and the proposed legislation behind it? Sounds interesting.
 
What about a gun license with a gun safety class as a requirement?

Also 4 day waiting list for gun purchases, at this time any red flags when your gun license is scanned gets automatically sent to law enforcement/ fbi so they can do their due diligence without actually stopping anyone from purchasing a gun?

If law enforcement then finds out there's beyond reasonable doubt that you're going to commit a crime then they can act on it. They got those 4 days to assess if you're a threat.

Red flags like mental health disorder, psych meds, watch list, history of dangerous behaviour, etc

Dont know how well this would work, and if it's feasible, but this way no one gets denied purchasing a gun
 
japman40 said:
What about a gun license with a gun safety class as a requirement?

Also 4 day waiting list for gun purchases, at this time any red flags when your gun license is scanned gets automatically sent to law enforcement/ fbi so they can do their due diligence without actually stopping anyone from purchasing a gun?

If law enforcement then finds out there's beyond reasonable doubt that you're going to commit a crime then they can act on it. They got those 4 days to assess if you're a threat.

Red flags like mental health disorder, psych meds, watch list, history of dangerous behaviour, etc

Dont know how well this would work, and if it's feasible, but this way no one gets denied purchasing a gun
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1) gun licensing seems like a good idea until it is abused. For example, a newspaper with an agenda publishes the address and a strip map to each owners residence. Because that shit actually happened.

2) With all of these great new tools for law enforcement to use you need to recognize that they won't. When a FELON commits a crime by attempting to buy a firearm from an FFL (which is a crime) the police will not follow up for an arrest. Seems stupid, but to quote an ATF official in a hearing to Congress, "Its just a paper crime"

So while your suggestions seem reasonable, and I could agree with them, they are ripe for abuse and won't be enforced anyway.
 
TheGreatA said:
Yet Trump is not proposing anything that isn't already being done in most well-functioning, well-organized 1st world Western countries.

America won't descend to tyranny by taking a stronger stance against mass shootings. Neither did Finland. We tightened up the laws, allowed greater freedom for the police to act against potential mass shooters, and there have never been mass shootings again. Not a single one. No citizen has been harassed as a result of mass shooters/terrorists being stripped of their rights to carry a gun.

But in America, this is never going to happen, obviously. They value their individual rights too much, for that to happen. Therefore, if a cop actually wants to do what other cops in 1st world countries already do, to prevent mass shootings of this sort, then he has to break the law, bypass the "due processes", and neutralize the threatening individual before he can act upon his impulses. In doing so, he must exercise his individual judgment and go against the system.

The problem is that Americans live in a hallucination where they believe that they are constantly on verge of descending into Stalinist tyranny. That's a left-over from the original revolutionaries that founded America, and that's something that the Americans are going to have to deal with, forever and ever, until the end of their days. They'll never be able to trust the government, and they'll never be able to organize their government as efficiently as the nations where the people actually do trust the government, where certain compromises from individual rights can be made to address threats to security and stability.
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We're founded on a Constitution with a set of inalienable rights that cannot be infringed upon. Illegal detention and forfeiture of property without due process is an absolutely major violation of an American citizen's rights. If we are to make the changes Trump proposed we would need 2/3s majority vote in the house and Senate to repeal or replace the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments.

I don't think you understand just how absurd of an idea that is. It would certainly lead to war.

What Trump said is the most blatant proposition of violating the Constitution by a politician that I've heard in my life. And the list is long. It's like if Bush verbatim said of Iraq "well, there aren't WMDs but let's say there are and go to war without Congressional approval anyway."
 
Palis said:
Fuck i have to agree with Trotsky?

Trump is playing to emotions over this. Sorry bub but the law and 2nd amendment trumps you.

There's a way to be bipartisan on this issue and that isn't it.
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Imagine if Trump ends up being more anti-gun/anti-2nd amendment than Obama ever was. Obama may have talked about "common sense gun control" (iirc he coined the term), but he never really pushed for legislation like Trump seems to be doing.
 
mr.bigglesworth said:
We're founded on a Constitution with a set of inalienable rights that cannot be infringed upon. Illegal detention and forfeiture of property without due process is an absolutely major violation of an American citizen's rights. If we are to make the changes Trump proposed we would need 2/3s majority vote in the house and Senate to repeal or replace the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendments.

I don't think you understand just how absurd of an idea that is. It would certainly lead to war.

What Trump said is the most blatant proposition of violating the Constitution by a politician that I've heard in my life. And the list is long. It's like if Bush verbatim said of Iraq "well, there aren't WMDs but let's say there are and go to war without Congressional approval anyway."
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Trump is not proposing any of these changes. He probably knows fully well that nothing can be changed in that regard.

He's just saying that if you know that somebody's about to go on a massacre, stop giving a fuck about the law. That's what he's saying. He's telling the cops to go on some vigilante shit, and telling them that he'll have their back. Like he did Joe Arpaio's, and so forth. Pull a Dirty Harry, take the law in your own hands, whatever. Do what Jack Bauer does in 24, or Bruce Willis in Die Hard.

Is that right or wrong? I can't speak for that. But he's not going to make any legislative changes. If Obama didn't for 8 years, why would Trump? Nobody expects him to. Those who oppose him, clearly don't want him to, neither do his base supporters. So he's just mouthing off, letting of steam. He knows that he cannot do anything about the problem.

The constitution is great stuff but it doesn't automatically prevent people from being massacred by psychopaths, as we have seen. In fact, it might enable them to. So that's something the Americans need to kind of figure out. Or just stop caring about it. I think the latter, at this point, is preferable.

Just stop giving a damn, none of you are going to come up with any solutions. It's up to the good guys with guns, to come up with the solutions.
 
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Prutfis said:
Could you provide a link to this plan and the proposed legislation behind it? Sounds interesting.
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I provided a link to the platform and she made statements about Australian style gun control.

If you don't think if Hillary and the democrats were in control they would push for much heavier gun control now you are being dishonest.
 
oldshadow said:
I provided a link to the platform and she made statements about Australian style gun control.

If you don't think if Hillary and the democrats were in control they would push for much heavier gun control now you are being dishonest.
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So you don´t have anything? Ok that´s what I figured.
 
Prutfis said:
So you don´t have anything? Ok that´s what I figured.
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She not president or even in Congress so all we can go by his her statements in the past.

So you are going to be dishonest about this.
 
oldshadow said:
She not president or even in Congress so all we can go by his her statements in the past.

So you are going to be dishonest about this.
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I am not the one making wild unsubstantiated claims about Hillary. You made the statements that you seem unable to back up with evidence.
 
I thought Obama was going to be the gun grabber, turns out Trump is the gun grabber.
 
This is why Trump is entertaining, you just never know what he's gonna say next.
 
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