Trump: Government will not reopen until we have a wall, a fence, whatever they want to call it

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Mexico and South America will pay for the wall by losing billions on remittances and US will save billions by not processing tens of thousands of illegals. Not complicated.

Slats are what border patrol wants so they can see through the other side in case of some activity. Wall is a generic term for it.

So were grasping at straws now and making zhit up?

 

[TheGreatA]

Who would be the representation of the Bernie type in Demons?
Stepan Trofimovich?

Definitely.

The character was written to describe late 19th century Russia's equivalent to people like him.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

(I believe that graphic is supposed to represent drops in illegal crossings)

With how politicized this issue is in America, I don't really trust the Right Wing positions on this in the slightest and I expect there is a "but..." that they don't mention. What I'm wondering is, what is the response to Left leaning posters on this? Are such claims of effective barriers elsewhere credible, or are such numbers misleading/inaccurate? Is comparing Hungary and Israel to the US Southern border apples to oranges? If so, why? Curious to hear the two sides of this sound off on these often repeated talking points.

I think it's pretty obvious a wall would stop people from walking in. Democrats like to say that immigration went down and the usual stuff, but it is still significant. It wouldn't stop all forms of illegal migration as people could still reach the US by boat or by overstaying their visas, but it would work to a degree.
Some e-verify or any other form of punishing employers would probably be more effective, just as a comparison, since 1930~ in Brazil you need a so called CLT to work, it was originally a small booklet and it's now mostly digital. Your employer signs it, if he doesn't he is fucked and will incur extraordinary penalties so people do not hire illegals or kids. You can get that for free from a governmental office but you need an ID, birth certificate or whatever. It was created originally to avoid slave like labor, child labor and so on as every working person is on a list and the government can check if you are paying wages, giving out vacations etc but it also works against illegals.
However that's very common in politics, you don't go and propose a better solution, you just point some flaws and say he is an idiot. Because if the democrats reached over and came to a bipartisan solution it would be a win for Trump as he is the one people will remember.

There is also something else, hispanic migration is good in the long run for democrats and bad for republicans. Legal or illegal. Illegals do not vote but they have children that will vote, these children will hate the GOP who tried to expel their parents and build a wall to keep them into their countries.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

In relative terms, it is obvious. The US had something like 50% of the world GDP after WW2, into the early 50s. That's impossible nowadays.
In absolute terms, of course not, all countries tend to grow in the long run, countries do not really peak (except argentina, maybe). Even Zimbabwe or Syria is probably better nowadays than it was in 1950 due to advances in technology, despite their disastrous situations.

 

[grizzard2bid]

We all know what Trump meant by saying Mexico will pay for it, and that will not happen. We knew what he meant by a big wall, and it is not happening.

If you're older than 20, and followed Trump before his "apprentice" persona and his political run, he was a reliable bullshit artist. Sure he built his name up and put up few condos with other people's money, but his main route to success was his bullshit salesmanship. Heard about Trump University? Why would you take any of his promises at face value?

That being said, if the wall is built properly, Mexico and central America will take a monstrous hit in remittances. There's just no denying that. Money will stay in this country.

I do recall Trump's interviews on his walls and he did mention that the whole area does not need to be zoned off because of natural barriers, but in more essential areas. I don't find any issue with that.
As to the big wall, a 30ft structure would constitute a big wall if it impedes flow of people and vehicles. We can look up the definition, but what's the point, right?

 

[Shoemaker]

Infrastructure? What's that? Is that referring to the Wall? - Donald Trump

That's probably been the big disappointment for me from the administrations. All of the bad ideas aside, I can get behind anyone looking to kick start a revamp of our national infrastructure. There were quite a few republicans who got my vote in November for focusing on that. The "plan" we got last year was a huge disappointment, though. Telling the states "hey, you guys need to fix your infrastructure", something they already know, isn't great leadership.

With the democrats taking the House, we're likely to see a lot more stalled legislation. But I'm hoping that one place where the administration and the House majority can come together is on infrastructure, if the White House is still committed to it. It will probably look different than they were planning, though, since originally Bannon's plan relied on historically-low interest rates.

 

[grizzard2bid]

I’m a democrat and I legit don’t give a fuck if he wants a wall, go ahead and build it. Don’t think it will change anything really but whatever.

The thing I’m more pissed about is paying for it after his countless speeches of “Mexico will fund it.” He knew this was never going to happen. Liars (on both parties) should be called on out their bullshit.

Edit: - if he gets reimbursement for it in the form of tariffs and whatnot that works though too.

Agree.
It's not a short-term return, but within 3-4 years it will yield back dividends with interest.

 

[deviake]

Then you've proven @Starman 's point.

Nah, I already myself clear. Whether Trump tries what he's talking about or not is a "?" at this point and I don't need to read a novel to know that. If he had anything of substance to add he would have already said it. I get what he saying about NAFTA and what Trump could do before he meandered off into emotional babble and started repeatedly stabbing a strawman. I've argued/debated enough to know the routine

 

[deviake]

They’re already paying for it as we speak. But then you’d know that if you were anything other than a partisan hack.

No they aren't, lol

 

[Greoric]

Agree.
It's not a short-term return, but within 3-4 years it will yield back dividends with interest.

Why are you convinced of that?

 

[grizzard2bid]

Why are you convinced of that?

Assuming the wall is built, it will impede the flow of immigration. Give more resources to border patrol to prevent climbers and reduce number drastically. That in term will save millions and billions, not counting the money that would otherwise be remitted to the illegal's home countries. It's been noted that a lot of people who try to sneak into US do so to support families back home.

 

[Greoric]

Assuming the wall is built, it will impede the flow of immigration. Give more resources to border patrol to prevent climbers and reduce number drastically. That in term will save millions and billions, not counting the money that would otherwise be remitted to the illegal's home countries. It's been noted that a lot of people who try to sneak into US do so to support families back home.

I gotcha, why are you convinced of the border wall's efficiacy towards those ends though?

 

[emefer]

Fuck the wall. Start locking up illegal employers again. Problem solved.

 

[grizzard2bid]

I gotcha, why are you convinced of the border wall's efficiacy towards those ends though?

ICE and border patrol testimony.

I also climbed shit as a kid and teen, and it's no easy feat to climb a 30ft wall, even with a ladder.
You have to apply common sense. A well constructed and designed 30ft or so wall will deter a good deal of illegal attempts. And when it doesn't it will still create enough of an obstacle to give border patrol time to respond.

I can say with absolute confidence if they incorporate razor wire with 40ft wall, aint' nobody is trying to climb that. Slats or not.

 

[Quipling]

Fuck the wall. Start locking up illegal employers again. Problem solved.

Yeah but apparently you're not supposed to indict presidents or something

 

[Greoric]

ICE and border patrol testimony.

I also climbed shit as a kid and teen, and it's no easy feat to climb a 30ft wall, even with a ladder.
You have to apply common sense. A well constructed and designed 30ft or so wall will deter a good deal of illegal attempts. And when it doesn't it will still create enough of an obstacle to give border patrol time to respond.

OK. As a principled question for you, if the the funding for the wall was shown to better limit illegal immigration if it was allocated elsewhere would you still be in favor of the wall?

 

[JonesBones]

If I don't get my government check the first of tha month there is gonna be problems.

 

[grizzard2bid]

OK. As a principled question for you, if the the funding for the wall was shown to better limit illegal immigration if it was allocated elsewhere would you still be in favor of the wall?

What other avenue would you take? Having Mexico arrest them before they cross into US? Whenever they land on US soil, the bill starts going up. We have to house, prosecute, provide attorneys to them and eventually serve deportation warrants. It's so much cheaper to avoid all that by preventing entrance. If there are other ways of preventing entrance into the country, I'd be 1000% for it.

 

[Rod1]

That being said, if the wall is built properly, Mexico and central America will take a monstrous hit in remittances. There's just no denying that. Money will stay in this country.

I cant tell of Central America, but Mexico wont take a huge hit, illegals are already there and its not like getting a visa is super hard either. Not to mention of course the fact that the US deports mainly criminals and not working individuals.

Also do people realize that "money" nowadays is just a piece of paper right?

That in term will save millions and billions, not counting the money that would otherwise be remitted to the illegal's home countries. It's been noted that a lot of people who try to sneak into US do so to support families back home.

Again, why do you think remittances are a problem? and if they were indeed a problem wouldnt it be "fixed" by printing the exact same amount of money?

I mean you talk as if the dollars that get sent to Mexico get burned in a bin.

 

[Slick_36]

Assuming the wall is built, it will impede the flow of immigration. Give more resources to border patrol to prevent climbers and reduce number drastically. That in term will save millions and billions, not counting the money that would otherwise be remitted to the illegal's home countries. It's been noted that a lot of people who try to sneak into US do so to support families back home.

What about upkeep?