TRT Gandalf vs Prime Sauron who wins ?

[Fawlty]

Part of Tolkien’s own theological paradigm. God has it under control. Recall that Eru will have a 3rd song before the end, which renders all things unto himself

Just having some fun, but yes that's true.

Tolkien did a great job with creating that universe, with very interesting implications for free will/determinism. He retains the whole post hoc "it was God's will" thing but manages to create difficult choices for the characters related to the prophecies regardless. Galadriel's Mirror is especially interesting imo.

 

[Fawlty]

Been awhile but I seem to remember there were multiple versions of the story Tolkien wrote, some in which she did and some in which she was banned from the west just as a general rebel and simply by her own desire to rule in middle earth.

It will be interesting to see what Amazon come up with in terms of LOTR prequels, if they can't do the Silmarrilion I'm personally hoping for a story of the second age, Sauron in his manipulator form, the rings of power, the elves and Numenor. Theres a decent framework there for that which could include characters like her and Elrond even if the details would need to be written.

I haven't been through Tolkien's notes and unpublished versions, that would be really interesting to see what sorts of ideas he played with.

 

[Fawlty]

Been awhile but I seem to remember there were multiple versions of the story Tolkien wrote, some in which she did and some in which she was banned from the west just as a general rebel and simply by her own desire to rule in middle earth.

It will be interesting to see what Amazon come up with in terms of LOTR prequels, if they can't do the Silmarrilion I'm personally hoping for a story of the second age, Sauron in his manipulator form, the rings of power, the elves and Numenor. Theres a decent framework there for that which could include characters like her and Elrond even if the details would need to be written.

I'd like a Beren and Luthien film. For me it was easily the best story in the book.

 

[Spoken]

Just having some fun, but yes that's true.

Tolkein did a great job with creating that universe, with very interesting implications for free will/determinism. He retains the whole post hoc "it was God's will" thing but manages to create difficult choices for the characters related to the prophecies regardless. Galadriel's Mirror is especially interesting imo.

Indeed.
The one line in the Silmarillion that you mentioned is kind of a vexing one. Personal conscience And agency is so important in the Lord of the rings. This is an obvious extension to his Catholic thought.
I kind of take that one line as more about the return of middle earth to its perfection than the discord being part of the ultimate will have the creator....but that’s because of the role of agency and evil in other parts of his text.
Thinking of it theologically, evil for talking is always probation, the corruption of the thing. It does not have essence or being in itself. So the discord in the harmony of Eru’s song is a corruption of a perfect and beautiful thing. Christianity has long-held God cannot perform evil acts. But, talking himself admits parts of his narrative have bad theology

 

[moreorless87]

I'd like a Beren and Luthien film. For me it was easily the best story in the book.

I don't think Amazon have the rights to The Silmarillion though, just to LOTR which includes events covered in the appendix at the end of Return of the King, so the second and third ages plus perhaps short reference to the war of wrath at the end of the first age.

 

[Losfer Words]

What the fuck did the two Blue wizards do? Thats all I want to know.

 

[Spoken]

I don't think Amazon have the rights to The Silmarillion though, just to LOTR which includes events covered in the appendix at the end of Return of the King, so the second and third ages.

It’s a prequel to LOTR

 

[KnightTemplar]

He wasn't allowed to, not directly. Notice Sauron also sent minions.

Sauron didn't have a physical body at that point, so he sent mooks to deal with Gandalf. Prime Sauron was wrecking fools left and right until one of them got in a lucky shot. Gandalf got his shit pushed in by Saruman and tapped to strikes.

Does Gandalf even Lift, bro?

 

[moreorless87]

It’s a prequel to LOTR

That could mean a lot of things, the events of the wars of the rings in the 2nd age, the various wars in the 3rd age or perhaps younger versions of characters like Aragorn just before LOTR.

 

[Spoken]

That could mean a lot of things, the events of the wars of the rings in the 2nd age, the various wars in the 3rd age or perhaps younger versions of characters like Aragorn just before LOTR.

True. But it means silmarllion is on the table.

 

[moreorless87]

True. But it means silmarllion is on the table.

Legally it isn't at the moment since as far as I'm aware the Tolkien estate hasn't sold the rights to it, its just the rights to LOTR that Amazon has picked up.

 

[Bald1]

Postmortem Rand al'Thor wipes out both these cans without breaking a sweat.

 

[Spoken]

True. But it means silmarllion is on the table.

Legally it isn't at the moment since as far as I'm aware the Tolkien estate hasn't sold the rights to it, its just the rights to LOTR that Amazon has picked up.

googled. Quite right. No silmarillon.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Part of Tolkien’s own theological paradigm. God has it under control. Recall that Eru will have a 3rd song before the end, which renders all things unto himself

Also that Galadriel predicted that before the End, the sunken lands of Beleriand would rise above the seas again, but none knew what day that might be.
Because when the Valar bitch slapped Mo

Sauron didn't have a physical body at that point, so he sent mooks to deal with Gandalf. Prime Sauron was wrecking fools left and right until one of them got in a lucky shot. Gandalf got his shit pushed in by Saruman and tapped to strikes.

Does Gandalf even Lift, bro?

Sarumen faked the glove touch and fought dirty, spying on his opponent's camp. Big G can't be blamed for that.

Sauron coming to fight day undermuscled and weak also ain't Gandalf's fault. Sauron should've showed up instead of faking a lack of corporeal ability.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Also that Galadriel predicted that before the End, the sunken lands of Beleriand would rise above the seas again, but none knew what day that might be.
Because when the Valar bitch slapped Mo

Sarumen faked the glove touch and fought dirty, spying on his opponent's camp. Big G can't be blamed for that.

Sauron coming to fight day undermuscled and weak also ain't Gandalf's fault. Sauron should've showed up instead of faking a lack of corporeal ability.

Gandalf didn't run a Full Training Camp, so he was unprepared to fight at that altitude. You fight the man in front of you; Saruman can't be blamed for Gandalf's lack of conditioning.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Gandalf didn't run a Full Training Camp, so he was unprepared to fight at that altitude. You fight the man in front of you; Saruman can't be blamed for Gandalf's lack of conditioning.

Remember that Gandalf had been depleted by his fight with the Balrog- his skull got cracked- and the subsequent weight cut. Then he fought hard battles.
They need a rematch maybe

 

[Gabicho]

Gandalf would get Zulu'd by Sauron 99/100 times.
The one time Gandalf could pull the upset, it would get turned into a No Contest because he would fail WADA. He's always smoking leaf.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Remember that Gandalf had been depleted by his fight with the Balrog- his skull got cracked- and the subsequent weight cut. Then he fought hard battles.
They need a rematch maybe

Gandalf tapped to Suraman's strikes before he moved up a weight class to fight the Balrog. In fairness, if anyone in Rings pissed hot, it was the Balrog

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Gandalf tapped to Suraman's strikes before he moved up a weight class to fight the Balrog. In fairness, if anyone in Rings pissed hot, it was the Balrog

LOL
Curunír was at that time in Gandalf's career his toughest test to date. Especially with the sissy palantir cheating, G dawg did the best he could, got into a bad spot but eventually escaped the position.
Afterwards he did nothing but main card events, fighting heavyweight killers. Any place, any time, no excuses. He didn't eat some damned quail eggs, he didn't have staph. He was a clean fighting legend.

His only real loss was to Matt Hammill

 

[moreorless87]

Gandalf would get Zulu'd by Sauron 99/100 times.
The one time Gandalf could pull the upset, it would get turned into a No Contest because he would fail WADA. He's always smoking leaf.

What you could say I spose is that Tolkien always pushed the idea that various Valar/Maia dark lords actually diminished themselves by letting their power pass into those they controlled or warped.

In Jacksons film I think he shifts Saruman a bit, basically he falls during the film and is still powerful when he confronts Gandalf before obviously being weaker by the end. In the book he's fallen sometime before that and never really confronts him so much as just has him trapped in the middle of a fortress full of his forces.