• Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) There shouldn't be any downtime, as it's just a maintenance release. More info here

Rewatch Tito vs Frank Shamrock was a banger

Ludwig von Mises

Green Belt
@Green
Joined
Apr 14, 2024
Messages
982
Reaction score
1,966


Considering this fight took place in 1999, 25 years ago you gotta show some hespect for the skills, heart and endurance that were on display in this fight. I'd go as far as saying the skills displayed in this fight aren't any less evolved than 90% of the skills you see at LHW today.

Tito was a beast of a wrestler and could probably take down anyone back then. Frank was an amazing grappler. He was confident off his back and tried to counter the first takedown with a Kimura and chained that into an armlock attempt and used it to regain guard.

He wasn't able to get the submission but it was still a very high level sequence even by today's standards. There are guys in the UFC today who wouldn't be able to do this to Tito.

Frank also used a sneaky hip out to stand back up against the wall but Tito just took him down again and GnP'd the shit out of him. A lot of guys on bottom would be tired and discouraged by this point but Frank ends up getting back up again and it starts to look like Tito looks surprised that this isnt a walk in the park and looks somewhat frustrated and takes Frank down again and the round ends.

The second round begins and Frank starts to land some nice strikes on the feet and Tito takes him down again. This time Frank uses a Gramby roll to get back to his feet- another high level grappling technique you don't see the bigger guys pulling off very often. Impressive as fuck for 1999 and Tito takes him down again. Crazy conviction and pressure from Tito.

By the time the 3rd round begins Tito looks a little bit tired and Shamrock starts landing some more strikes. High intensity fight and as Shamrock tees off on Tito, Tito takes him down again multiple times and works from the top. Both guys are tired now but Tito is totally spent.

In round 4 the exchanges become even more violent. Shamrock is throwing with big power and trying to knock Tito out. Tito takes him down again. This is like the 10th time. Most fighters would be exhausted by this point.

Shamrock is still active from his back and sweeps and reverses Tito and Tito tries to counter that with a butterly/shin sweep but Shamrock does some kind of epic break dancer move and spins around and maintains control and gets back to his feet and continues to brawl as the crowd goes wild. What a crazy and super technical scramble. Epic throw down.

Tito goes for one last takedown which seems to work but Shamrock grabs hold of his head gets back to his feet and finishes Tito with brutal elbow. Both guys are dead tired. What a hard, gutsy and skillful fight.

Tito's pressure wrestling and crushing top game would be valid in the striker heavy LHW division of today. A lot of guys would be tired and discouraged after getting back up a few times and being taken down again and again by him for 15+ minutes straight. You'd need crazy endurance to handle his top game.

Shamrocks grappling would be valid in today's division too. He was doing Kimura takedown counters and chaining them into armlocks and using gramby rolls to regain guard over and over again and getting back to his feet after being taken down like 10 times. Very active guard for 1999 going for submissions and sweeps 20 minutes into a grueling fight. Insanely good cardio and toughness.

Underrated fight and underrated skills shown by both guys even by today's standards. Shamrock would have been a bad man in today's sport with today's training and access to modern sports science. He'd probably be a MW.
 
Last edited:
I love those strikes to the back of the head. That's like one of the biggest differences between wrestling in MMA and wrestling in a street fight.

Wrestlers can chain wrestle without much fear because they know they can't get hit back.

Not saying we should legalize it, but just feel like BLEEDING right now.
 
Last edited:


Considering this fight took place in 1999, 25 years ago you gotta show some hespect for the skills, heart and endurance that were on display in this fight.

Tito was a beast of a wrestler and could probably take down anyone back then. Frank was an amazing grappler. He was confident off his back and tried to counter the first takedown with a Kimura and chained that into an armlock attempt and used it to regain guard.

He wasn't able to get the submission but it was still a very high level sequence even by today's standards. There are guys in the UFC today who wouldn't be able to do this to Tito.

Frank also used a sneaky hip out to stand back up against the wall to get back up but Tito just took him down again and GnP'd the shit out of Frank. A lot of guys on bottom would be tired and discouraged by this point but Frank ends up getting back up again and it starts to look like Tito is getting tired.

The fight goes on and Frank starts to land some nice strikes on the feet and Tito takes him down again. This time Frank uses a Gramby roll to get back to his feet- another high level grappling technique you don't see the bigger guys pulling off very often. Impressive as fuck for 1999 and Tito takes him down again. Crazy conviction and pressure from Tito.

By the time the 3rd round begins Tito looks tired and Shamrock starts landing some more strikes. High intensity fight and as Shamrock tees off on Tito, Tito takes him down again multiple times and works from the top. Both guys are tired now but Tito is totally spent.

In round 4 the exchanges become even more violent. Shamrock is throwing with big power and trying to knock Tito out. Tito takes him down again. This is like the 10th time. Most fighters would be exhausted by this point.

Shamrock is still active from his back and sweeps and reverses Tito and Tito tries to counter that with a butterly/shin sweep but Shamrock does some kind of epic break dancer move and spins around and maintains control and gets back to his feet and continues to brawl as the crowd goes wild. What a crazy and super technical scramble. Epic throw down.

Tito goes for one last takedown which seems to work but Shamrock grabs hold of his head gets back to his feet and finishes Tito with brutal elbow. Both guys are dead tired. What a hard, gutsy and skillful fight.

Tito's pressure wrestling and crushing top game would be valid even today in the striker heavy LHW division of today. A lot of guys would be tired and discouraged after getting back up a few times and getting taken down again and again 10 minutes into the fight.

Shamrocks grappling would be valid in today's division too. He was doing Kimura takedown counters and chaining them into armlocks and using gramby rolls to regain guard over and over again and getting back to his feet after being taken down like 10 times. Very active guard for 1999 going for submissions and sweeps 20 minutes into a grueling fight. Insanely good cardio and toughness.

Underrated fight and underrated skills shown even by today's standards. Shamrock would have been a bad man in today's sport with today's training and access to modern sports science. He'd probably be a MW.


I think Frank would probably be a welterweight even, very small by todays standards.
 
Frank Shamrock doing the "go to sleep" looking pose, then ricocheting Phil Baroni's brain around the inside of his skull was the most bad ass thing I've ever seen.

Watch the first round...

sleep pose, points @ Baroni

BAM!


Elite XC was sooo damn good.

 
Last edited:
The guys coming over from Pancrase (which usually meant those affiliated with Lion’s Den) were different types of animals back then. Even though the rule set was different, their skills were usually on a much higher level because of the strength of competition in Japan. Heck, even Maurice Smith was able to come in with a sub .500 record from Japan and win a championship…

I’ve never been a fan of Ortiz, but the fact that he was able to just give all of the Lion’s Den fighters problems, even when he lost, just proves how good he was at the time.
 


Considering this fight took place in 1999, 25 years ago you gotta show some hespect for the skills, heart and endurance that were on display in this fight.

Tito was a beast of a wrestler and could probably take down anyone back then. Frank was an amazing grappler. He was confident off his back and tried to counter the first takedown with a Kimura and chained that into an armlock attempt and used it to regain guard.

He wasn't able to get the submission but it was still a very high level sequence even by today's standards. There are guys in the UFC today who wouldn't be able to do this to Tito.

Frank also used a sneaky hip out to stand back up against the wall but Tito just took him down again and GnP'd the shit out of him. A lot of guys on bottom would be tired and discouraged by this point but Frank ends up getting back up again and it starts to look like Tito is getting tired. Tito takes Frank down again and the round ends.

The second round begins and Frank starts to land some nice strikes on the feet and Tito takes him down again. This time Frank uses a Gramby roll to get back to his feet- another high level grappling technique you don't see the bigger guys pulling off very often. Impressive as fuck for 1999 and Tito takes him down again. Crazy conviction and pressure from Tito.

By the time the 3rd round begins Tito looks a little bit tired and Shamrock starts landing some more strikes. High intensity fight and as Shamrock tees off on Tito, Tito takes him down again multiple times and works from the top. Both guys are tired now but Tito is totally spent.

In round 4 the exchanges become even more violent. Shamrock is throwing with big power and trying to knock Tito out. Tito takes him down again. This is like the 10th time. Most fighters would be exhausted by this point.

Shamrock is still active from his back and sweeps and reverses Tito and Tito tries to counter that with a butterly/shin sweep but Shamrock does some kind of epic break dancer move and spins around and maintains control and gets back to his feet and continues to brawl as the crowd goes wild. What a crazy and super technical scramble. Epic throw down.

Tito goes for one last takedown which seems to work but Shamrock grabs hold of his head gets back to his feet and finishes Tito with brutal elbow. Both guys are dead tired. What a hard, gutsy and skillful fight.

Tito's pressure wrestling and crushing top game would be valid in the striker heavy LHW division of today. A lot of guys would be tired and discouraged after getting back up a few times and being taken down again and again 10+ minutes into a fight.

Shamrocks grappling would be valid in today's division too. He was doing Kimura takedown counters and chaining them into armlocks and using gramby rolls to regain guard over and over again and getting back to his feet after being taken down like 10 times. Very active guard for 1999 going for submissions and sweeps 20 minutes into a grueling fight. Insanely good cardio and toughness.

Underrated fight and underrated skills shown by both guys even by today's standards. Shamrock would have been a bad man in today's sport with today's training and access to modern sports science. He'd probably be a MW.

I appreciate you giving this old legend his props. Frank had quite an aura and mystique back in the day, and charisma for days...not to mention his dominance. During his UFC heyday, he was recognized as the pound for pound greatest fighter in the organization. I'll never forget the time he defeated Kevin Jackson, the olympic gold medalist in freestyle wrestling, in 16 seconds. He seemed invincible in those days. Quite possibly he was the first true mixed martial artist. Around the time that the Tito fight happened, this fight was heralded for the epic fight that it was, but its been buried under the sands of time and recency bias.
 
Last edited:
Frank Shamrock doing the "go to sleep" looking pose, then ricocheting Phil Baroni's brain around the inside of his skull was the most bad ass thing I've ever seen.

Watch the first minutes and thirty seconds of the first rd...Elite XC was sooo damn good.


haha, I agree. Its the only time I broke down and decided to buy a PPV without someone to share the cost with and I had the privilege of watching that happen live. The only thing that would have made it better is if Baroni had gotten completely knocked out at that moment, but to his credit, he survived and turned it into a dogfight.
 
The guys coming over from Pancrase (which usually meant those affiliated with Lion’s Den) were different types of animals back then. Even though the rule set was different, their skills were usually on a much higher level because of the strength of competition in Japan. Heck, even Maurice Smith was able to come in with a sub .500 record from Japan and win a championship…

I’ve never been a fan of Ortiz, but the fact that he was able to just give all of the Lion’s Den fighters problems, even when he lost, just proves how good he was at the time.
And those 30 minute, one round fights also forced Pancrase fighters to emphasize cardio/pace.
 
Back
Top