Tips for holding side control from the top

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by StevieSparkZ, Jun 5, 2008.

  1. StevieSparkZ

    StevieSparkZ Green Belt

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    I recently been training again and this is something I've been thinkin about as well as people countering my armbar attempts. Maintaining the top in side control is sort of a hit or miss for me at times. I feel some days my top in side control is great and some days it's weak. The late great Jeremy Williams (RIP) said in a video of his that holding a side control is harder than escaping from one. I've been agreeing as of late.

    Now before anyone says "search function", I have done that and I want to create another thread for this because I've found this

    YouTube - Five Swords Top Game

    As well as this that correlates to it

    Zhoozhitzu do Graugardo: A simple way of thinking topgame...


    There have been threads on this before but I wanted to make a fresh one and see if after this time anyone would have new things to their top game in side control. I know that 3-4 months ago I didn't have some minor details I had for my half guard game.
    So what are some things everyone finds works real well for them in the top of side control and what things give them problems and leads to an opponent escaping and/or recovering guard/half guard?
     
  2. Slithers

    Slithers Green Belt

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    I pretty much follow Christian's 5 Swords game to a T. It really works well once you get a feel for the system. The rest is in the fundamentals...hips low, proper weight placement, balance, etc.

    Definitely the most helpful and well organized top side control system I have come across. Changed my top game.
     
  3. Eric Renzo NH

    Eric Renzo NH Green Belt

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    I completely agree as far as holding side control being harder then escaping. I constantly go back and forth between having really good subs from side mount and having good control. When i get both, i feel like that will be a sign of me getting to that next level.
     
  4. Davii

    Davii Blue Belt

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    What I've started doing was controlling legs more in side control. This is similar to what you see in the 5 swords video.

    By really controlling the legs I've also found mounting easier. From head and hip control - if my left hand is on his hip to control it, ill also use my left leg and get deeper into his legs with it. Then often times ill start working a leg weave pass (which you see in that video as well). Its somthing I saw one of our high purple belt use in the pan ams and really impressed me.
     
  5. StevieSparkZ

    StevieSparkZ Green Belt

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  6. txfighter13

    txfighter13 Purple Belt

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    keep moving! there is no best position. just react to the minute by minute movement of the fight.
     
  7. hayliks

    hayliks Banned Banned

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    Some guys are all about total control with grips and holds, very judo style. I like to be mobile on top, I improve my position by taking advantage of people trying to escape, I am always threatening submissions and attacking making my opponent's escape attempts sloppy thus improving position easily.
     
  8. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Black Belt

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    get a crossface, block their hip with your other hand, so they can't slide under you and get their guard back. get on youtr tiptoes.
     
  9. The Colonel

    The Colonel Purple Belt

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    That's pretty much about all I do and most guys can't escape my side control who are at my rank. I don't feel like I really do anything special, I just block their hips, if they start to move I cross face the hell out of them to flatten 'em back out, drive into them but keep my weight on them (too high/over them and you can get rolled) and that's about it. I'm not really crazy about scarf holds or modified scarf holds (nothing wrong with them, just not something I use that often, I'm more of a knee on belly or north south guy when it comes to modified side control) Every now and then if they start to escape I either A) cradle them and flatten them back out, release, and go back to side control B) brabo choke C) if they manage to start working me back into their closed guard (as they are going from half to a closed guard, but before its really secure, during the scramble) I just cross knee pass back to side control, flatten them out, and go from there.
     
  10. King Creatine

    King Creatine Purple Belt

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    What about just taking the underhook and sitting out? A lot of subs from there and fairly good position to maintain control.
     
  11. Thalion

    Thalion Green Belt

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    I uploaded this video on youtube for you.

    It's Kashiwazaki Katsuhiko, one of the greates ground fighter in history of judo, teaching a variation Side mount (Yokoshio gatame) he was famouse for (this is also my favourite way to controll the opponent in side)

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kPyadvXNW4w&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kPyadvXNW4w&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    YouTube - Kashiwazaki Yokoshio gatame - Side mount
     
  12. StevieSparkZ

    StevieSparkZ Green Belt

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    Hmm I will have to try this tonight, very interesting. You do this in no gi as well?
     
  13. NiRinLove

    NiRinLove Blue Belt

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    get on aim noob
     
  14. FlameBoy

    FlameBoy Green Belt

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    I rely heavily on the Shoulder of Doom to inflict pain and ensure my opponent cant concentrate too much.

    If my opp starts to turn into me - I like to drop my elbow on their hip bone - really annoying and particularly painful.
     
  15. allgoodnamegone

    allgoodnamegone Banned Banned

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    Have you had much success with that?
     
  16. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    after watching robson moura's fusion BJJ side control volume my top control has improved out of site, i use a position he calls armride and it's just brutal for the guy on bottom.
     
  17. BlastBeats

    BlastBeats Cogito Ergo Dubito

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    I always felt scarf hold was the most comfortable side control position for me. If he doesn't work for an escape hard then I just go to reverse scarf hold then to mount (really easy sequence against dead fish on the bottom). If hes workin hard and putting his forearm into my throat and whatnot then I switch around to diff positions depending on how hes moving.
     
  18. QingTian

    QingTian Purple Belt

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    pinning is a real skill, as much as any sub if not more. a real indicator of experience.
     
  19. Thalion

    Thalion Green Belt

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    If you mind this are other video from kashiwazaki series

    Kami shio gatame (north south) and Tate shio gatame (mount)

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HPpWZlKzZr0&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HPpWZlKzZr0&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    YouTube - Kashiwazakii Kami and Tate shio gatame (northsouth mount)



    Kesa gatame kata gatame (arm triangle) and uki gatame

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U4qHlYUgU2k&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U4qHlYUgU2k&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    YouTube - Kashiwazaki Kesa gatame - Scarf Hold
     
  20. masada555

    masada555 Orange Belt

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    Sounds like your problem is more with your opponent recovering half-guard or guard than coming to his knees.

    To prevent guard or half-guard recovery:

    1. Use what Chris Haueter calls your "oh shit" hand: as soon as you feel that your opponent may move to recover guard, "oh shit!" Use your arm that's closest to his hips to block his hips. You just can't recover guard when the oh shit hand's in place. It's mechanically impossible.

    2. To block the half-guard, shift your position slightly to the diagonal -- instead of being perpendicular to your opponent, you want to be halfway between north-south and traditional, perpendicular side control. Now he can't stuff your leg back into his half-guard.

    To summarize: block the hip with your hand, angle off to about 45 degrees. Now wish your partner luck in recovering guard from that position. He's really gonna need it.
     

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