timou-nage (falling sacrifice throw) grips in no-gi

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by MMAforLife, Aug 21, 2005.

  1. MMAforLife

    MMAforLife Guest

    i liked the timou-nage (sp?) back in my judo days. it's that "captain kirk" falling back sacrifice throw with your foot in his hip. is there a practical way to do that in no gi? the only grips that seem to work for it are double underhooks (and if i have double underhooks, why bother with timou-nage?). do really deep double overhooks work?
     
  2. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    12,841
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    I have done it a few times in no-gi. I usually try it from the wrestler's clinch (one hand clasping the back of the neck, other hand grabbing the crook of the elbow). I try to pull down hard on the head to get the opponent's weight forward. Then I fall far underneath him and finish with the foot in the hip.

    In this version, most of the work is done by the hand on the head. It is basically a glorified sacrifice snapdown. If the snapdown works well, you can use the foot in the hip to finish the throw nicely. If the snapdown works not so well, you can always go straight into an open guard sweep.
     
  3. bugei

    bugei White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like to do it when the opponent does a bad shot. If you can secure the head in a guillotine, just put your foot on the inside of his thigh or hip and roll him over. You can keep the choke and roll into mount and crank it. I also like Balto's idea, but instead snap it down into a guillotine. Just my 2 cents.
     
  4. guardpasser

    guardpasser Tudo Bem Bjj

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    6,457
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Alpharetta ga.
    i have tried with bad success
     
  5. Q mystic

    Q mystic Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,174
    Likes Received:
    4
    I've done it with no-gi. If they're bent over. Tomoe-nage.
     
  6. Lol, yeah I thought it was Tomoe-nage also. Never heard of a Timoe-nage. As Balto said the best way to do this throw in a no-gi situation is in the collar and elbow clinch. Obviously you won't be able to hold his wrists well enough to execute it otherwise.
     
  7. Q mystic

    Q mystic Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,174
    Likes Received:
    4
    [QUOTE="Dangerous" Dan]Lol, yeah I thought it was Tomoe-nage also. Never heard of a Timoe-nage. As Balto said the best way to do this throw in a no-gi situation is in the collar and elbow clinch. Obviously you won't be able to hold his wrists well enough to execute it otherwise.[/QUOTE]


    Its a good one. Ive heard new guys yelling "tobanagi! tobanagi!"
     
  8. Spoonman7

    Spoonman7 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    8,999
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    California
    It will work really well with over unders, just remember to pull the opponent down and get his weight over you for it to really work well.
     
  9. Jason Pair

    Jason Pair Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    TN
    Works with over under or double overhooks. I did a throw similiar to a tomoe-nage MMA sparring with boxing gloves. Was going easy on the guy and threw a slow kick, he caught my leg and gripped so he was basically holding it to his side (basically the same thing as posting the hit on the opps. hip) I realized this, he tried breaking my balance for a takedown or footsweep so I got double overhooks and hit it perfectly.
     
  10. MMAforLife

    MMAforLife Guest

    [QUOTE="Dangerous" Dan]Lol, yeah I thought it was Tomoe-nage also. Never heard of a Timoe-nage. As Balto said the best way to do this throw in a no-gi situation is in the collar and elbow clinch. Obviously you won't be able to hold his wrists well enough to execute it otherwise.[/QUOTE]


    thanks guys, great info. it's for MMA. anything to add?
     
  11. Spoonman7

    Spoonman7 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    8,999
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    California
    with it being for MMA I would practice setting up and doing the move fast, that is not a common move that is seen much.
     
  12. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    12,841
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    This one might a little risky for MMA. In grappling it is fine because if you mess up the throw and land on your back, it's not a big deal to just work open guard. Some people will just fall to their back purposefully to go for a sweep/leglock, so going for the throw is pretty safe.

    However, in MMA, a failed tomoe-nage is gonna leave you open for kicks and stomps. If you can't get an immediate sweep or leglock, you could be in big trouble fast.

    I'd probably save this throw for pure grappling. But if you can pull it off in an MMA match, you'd probably be a crowd favorite.
     
  13. pugz

    pugz Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    lafayette la
    the wrestlers clinch works well as stated above. ive also done it from plum grab(both hands behnid ala silva gettin ready to knee ya) a few years back i was taught a variation that actually works quite well with no gi. secure a plum grab and shoot a knee to the stomach but instead of pullin it back leave it up there and push it kinda sideways (ideally your knee should be slighly above the hip with your foot on the same foot more towards the center line of your opponents body makeing your leg look kinda like this lil symbol "/". now while holding the plum grab shoot your base leg thru the center of your opponents legs using your knee to roll your opponent over your body. when done right you can stear your opponent over using your arms and roll up on top of them in a knee ride.
     
  14. Yeah I think in MMA you want to capitalise on the throw obviously. So make sure that after you're thrown him over your head you keep hold of his head and use his momentum to do a backwards somersault and climb on top, preferably into the mount. Then take it from there.
     
  15. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,974
    Likes Received:
    13
    For no-gi, MMA stuff, seems to me you'd want to let it come to you. Almost like a reaction if you're getting taken down. It's also very close to pulling a modified butterfly guard but then hefting the guy up and over ala the airplane sweep. It's more like a defensive sweep than an offensive throw, as you're fallng backwards, if that makes sense.
     
  16. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Messages:
    27,864
    Likes Received:
    6,094
    When you do it with the knee its called sumi-gaeshi, with a foot its called tomoe-nage, when its a counter to a shoot its called tawara gaeshi.
     
  17. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    6,974
    Likes Received:
    13
    Damn, you're good. Sounds dead on to me.

    Seems to me that these things kind of blend together into one technique sometimes, and especially in the MMA environment. That is, Tomoe Nage morphs seamlessly into Sumi Gaeshi which morphs into Tawara Gaeshi, etc, etc. However, in the end, I think the technique will end up looking something like: an attempt to pull guard due to pressure from the opponent, butterfly guard, a little scoot of the legs up under the opponent, airplane sweep.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.