Time Machine Mirror fight: "vs George Foreman vs"

[mozfonky]

You guys shouldn’t be fighting.

Your av’s are older than half of the posters on this site. ;-)

I should photoshop a photo of the godfather having a heart attack from the foreman righthand or perhaps a photo from the crying scene.

 

[TheGreatA]

Young George would probably stop the old version on his feet, the same way he did to Chuvalo.

It looked pretty bad at points against Alex Stewart, and Foreman in his prime was certainly a class above Stewart.

 

[TheGreatA]

Old George and Young George were two different fighters.

The guy was smart. He hired the ultimate old guy boxer to training him, Archie Moore. His crab defense worked.

I can't think of any other athlete that came back and complete changed his/her style the way Foreman did.

It would be like Mark Spitz coming back as a water polo player or Michael Jordan as a center.

It worked to a degree, but it was really his insane chin that kept him going. The Holyfield fight exposed Foreman's crab defense pretty badly. The only reason he stood on his feet is because he's just an immovable mountain.

Foreman switched to his old, Sandy Saddler-style of fighting (which Ali called "The Mummy") because he realized how porous that way of defense, the crab, was going to be against younger, faster opponents.

In either case he was very easy to hit during his comeback (and even his younger prime, really). Just very, very hard to actually hurt.

 

[Seano]

I know I know seano it's the sick obsession that gets me.

I really think its ridiculous to take talk about a sport so personally.

 

[TheGreatA]

I always thought comeback Foreman was pretty overrated. He beat one of the worst champs in history and got some questionable decisions. Can't imagine the guy who fought Alex Stewart and got outboxed by Tommy Morrison in there with anyone relevant.

I think the Holyfield fight, although a losing effort, was his last great fight. He took on an all-time great in their prime, and looked competitive. This George Foreman, to me, was still a "real deal". The last version of him that I'd seriously entertain in these sorts of conversations.

The rest of what he did during his comeback, doesn't really compare. You could see the physical decline even from the Holyfield fight, to the Moorer fight. He looked much more flabby and just unbalanced/uncoordinated. He was an old man who had been in his fair share of wars. The Holyfield and Stewart fights were pretty brutal, especially for a 40+ year old guy.

Despite the jokes about weight and hamburgers, I think the guy actually looked pretty impressive physically around that time (1991):

Lot of heavyweights out there now who'd wish to look as good as he did at that time.

By the Moorer fight you could see that he was starting to have an old man's physique:

 

[defjaam]

I always thought comeback Foreman was pretty overrated. He beat one of the worst champs in history and got some questionable decisions. Can't imagine the guy who fought Alex Stewart and got outboxed by Tommy Morrison in there with anyone relevant.

That's why you said that older George beats Tyson Fury, lol.

 

[Seano]

That's why you said that older George beats Tyson Fury, lol.

Just a style thing. Fury is a decent fighter but outboxing Wilder doesn't sell me on him beating others.

 

[mozfonky]

I really think its ridiculous to take talk about a sport so personally.

Yes, you finally admit you're ridiculous

 

[defjaam]

Just a style thing. Fury is a decent fighter but outboxing Wilder doesn't sell me on him beating others.

It's fine man. Just admit that you pulled that random statement out of your ass without actually realizing how moronic it is.

 

[mozfonky]

I think the Holyfield fight, although a losing effort, was his last great fight. He took on an all-time great in their prime, and looked competitive. This George Foreman, to me, was still a "real deal". The last version of him that I'd seriously entertain in these sorts of conversations.

The rest of what he did during his comeback, doesn't really compare. You could see the physical decline even from the Holyfield fight, to the Moorer fight. He looked much more flabby and just unbalanced/uncoordinated. He was an old man who had been in his fair share of wars. The Holyfield and Stewart fights were pretty brutal, especially for a 40+ year old guy.

Despite the jokes about weight and hamburgers, I think the guy actually looked pretty impressive physically around that time (1991):

Lot of heavyweights out there now who'd wish to look as good as he did at that time.

By the Moorer fight you could see that he was starting to have an old man's physique:

i never noticed that so much but one thing I notice looking back, he didn't look as fat as everyone was saying, I think at his heavyiest he was in the 260's and he was as low as 235 in the qawi fight which i just watched. He certainly wasn't as devestating as an older man, or mean. Who can forget the part in the quawi fight where he hits him, quawi staggers and george, thinking he was falling, turned away and got hit by quawi. The old george was honestly mean, wanted to hurt people, supposedly wanted to step on joe frazier in the rematch after he kayoed him.

I saw the moorer fight just the other night after a long time, the commentators were saying before and during, (gil clancy) that george didn't have anything left, not even his power, no one knew what he had in store. Gil Clancy said later only two knew about that right hand, george and god. The holyfield fight is actually pretty competitive, like i say over and over again about older fighters though, it seems that what they lose most is just the elite gear to beat a top fighter. Saw it many times, Camacho vs. Trinidad where he was in shape and trying, and was actually doing ok, just could not turn up the offense enough, on a skill basis they were about equal. People always say reflexes go, some say skin elasticity, drive has to be up there as well as how much punishment the body has taken. I've often said Roy Jones lost his legs and that's what brought him down, it was only a theory of mine, but years later, his son told a writer that Roy was incapable of doing roadwork from all the years of running. That's an important part of being a boxer.

 

[mozfonky]

That's why you said that older George beats Tyson Fury, lol.

he said that? wow, i didn't know he hated fury so much as to throw george in the fantasy ring.

 

[defjaam]

he said that? wow, i didn't know he hated fury so much as to throw george in the fantasy ring.

Pretty much...

Foremans ability to absorb punches and keep coming forward combined with his jab and power is a bad fight for Fury, IMO. Would look like Cooney vs Foreman.

... Which is fine. It's just a fantasy match up.

But now he says that Older George doesn't beat anyone relevant. So either Fury is not relevant or Seano forgot what he lied about.

 

[mozfonky]

al bernstein was big on old george for whatever reason, i remember him saying that tyson would lose to foreman if they fought, this was after buster douglas. Al even thought george beat axel shulz who most people thought won their fight. Atlas always insisted George was nothing but a con, a guy posing as someone harmless but used that to make everyone let their guard down, sure worked on moorer. didn't work on evander, his coach told him succinclty, "if he hits you, you'll be the deadest sob in the cemetary."

 

[mozfonky]

and whoever said that george is a notable exception to a fighter not changing style was right, can't think of a fighter who changed that much in technique. The man was not the joke he pretended to be and age just made him canny enough to use that as a ploy. I never thought he was even that good at hiding his true self, you'd catch him talking mean to his cornermen even in the small time fights, that was george.

one sad thing, wonder why his daughter committed suicide, i looked recently and couldn't find any new info.

 

[HELLHAMMER842]

Or him being fucking battered by Mercer and Bent

I always felt like he could've beaten both of them if he wasn't his own worst enemy but yeah.. could've, would've, should've... they did in fact kick his ass

 

[Prefect]

So, this is a new type of fantasy match up idea.

Come back foreman in his best performance
VS
Young foreman in his best performance


I've heard some people say that the improvement in his skill set made him a better fighter, idk if I completely agree with that, but what do you guys think?

Comeback Foreman sucked. He was gifted a title shot and got lucky. Moore was beating the brakes off him.

 

[Seano]

Yes, you finally admit you're ridiculous

Grow up, guy. Aren't you a little old for hero worship?

 

[Seano]

Pretty much...



... Which is fine. It's just a fantasy match up.

But now he says that Older George doesn't beat anyone relevant. So either Fury is not relevant or Seano forgot what he lied about.

Not really sure how you see this as a contradiction. Maybe I don't rate Fury as highly as you. He's a little chinny, doesn't have big power and Foreman had an iron chin, a very good jab and non stop pressure.
Fury is no Evander Holyfield, don't kid yourself.

 

[mozfonky]

Grow up, guy. Aren't you a little old for hero worship?

oh god seano, i thought you were gone from this thread, for chrissakes, I'm waving the white flag you win, whatever you say is that good?

 

[Jasonvoorhees]

Aside from stopping Moorer and becoming champ, I actually though that Foreman showed everyone he was something special, being as old as he was and taking a peak Holyfield the distance.

His comeback was so choreographed though. His quality of opposition was almost nonexistent for most of his second career. He built up his KO percentage mainly against hapless tomato cans. He hung tough against Holyfield and beat Moorer, but he really didn’t achieve much outside of his title win against Moorer (which was obviously a huge win — but George was pretty much losing the whole fight before he nailed Moorer). Plus, George never really earned either title shot: the Holyfield fight was handed to him basically and the Moorer fight was definitely handed to him (George lost to Tommy Morrison in his fight prior to facing Moorer).
Somehow, George became a top contender by facing extremely subpar opponents. Gerry Cooney was a joke. Adilson Rodriguez was sort of semi decent I guess, but he was never a real contender.
George had a great storyline and knew how to play up that whole “Nice guy, cheeseburger, preacher man schtick” that attracted fans and thus made him marketable — and he definitely capitalized. But he was a very limited fighter.