Tim Kennedy's right wing views?

[branchtan]

You are the one who is uneducated, the reason he was in prison all those years is because he had a death squad that killed any one who disagreed with him, white or black, he did not care. He was a committed communist, and did not believe in freedom. The left wing in this country made him a star, but I bet his after death trip was down not up.

You are a total moron, as if communists = anti freedom and capitalists are pro-freedom-really a simplistic worldview of someone who doesn't know how the world works. BTW Mandela sold out the left and became a "good" neoliberal when he came into power, which is why he gets good press in capitalist publications. As for Tim Kennedy, he's another brainwashed soldier, I wouldn't put too much stock into his political "insights". Please move along.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

a racist and your mom gets called a whore because you brought the facts.

Mandela is a sacred cow to a lot of people, and they will react unreasonably if anyone suggests that reality is rather more complicated than the pretty picture they have painted.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Still doesn't make it ok! Plus there are a lot of white SA's that where borne after 94 that are being killed. If you go to genocide watch which is dr stantons page. He is a liberal and laid the fight against apartheid. He has the boer at #6 out of 8 on the genocide scale. In no way is it ok to murder people they are no longer under the boot of the Boer

Exactly so.

Easy to sit and talk about historical causes when you live an ocean away. When you have groups of men roaming your neighborhood and threatening to kill your children, the history lesson takes a back seat.

However, it's a mistake to paint this as being the legacy of Mandela... unless you want to say that he should have worked out a land and property reform solution that would leave more blacks feeling that something had changed for them on the ground, rather than for a few guys who wanted to be in politics.

 

[devilfisted]

Exactly so.

Easy to sit and talk about historical causes when you live an ocean away. When you have groups of men roaming your neighborhood and threatening to kill your children, the history lesson takes a back seat.

However, it's a mistake to paint this as being the legacy of Mandela... unless you want to say that he should have worked out a land and property reform solution that would leave more blacks feeling that something had changed for them on the ground, rather than for a few guys who wanted to be in politics.

Non of the murders after mandella stepped out are on him. They are on the ANC and mostly on shower head. Most of sherdog will not know who that is.

 

[UJustGotChaeld]

Are you trying to shock me with the news that resistance movements get messy?

The Bushes know that... that's why Jeb and George have been so instrumental in allowing convicted terrorist Luis Posada Carriles to use the US as a safe haven.

And the dude Rummy is shaking hands with in that photo doesn't even have the excuse of being a member of a disempowered group trying to mount an effective offensive against an oppressive power. He WAS the oppressive power... and he STILL gassed his own people.

Heck, the US nuked two entire civilian cities. No one else has done that. Not even the big bad Reds.

Logical fallacies. Mandela was a murderer and terrorist. What messiness did George Washington get into? You compared the two.

 

[Supereem]

It is funny that Tim hates Nelson because of his death squads when he himself was a deathsquad killing poor Iraqis trying to defend their homes from foreign occupation.

Murica at its best.

 

[devilfisted]

Pat Barry just got killed!

 

[Supereem]

Logical fallacies. Mandela was a murderer and terrorist. What messiness did George Washington get into? You compared the two.

Being a "murderer" and "terrorist" is subjective.

Tim Kennedy terrorized the people of the middle east with his sniper rifle...is that terrorism? Or because you think you are standing up for concepts such as "justice", "democracy" and "freedom" (three things your country interprets differently from the rest of the sane world)?

He killed people in the Middle East, does that make Tim Kennedy a murderer?


Now...Mandela killed people to literally escape being a second class citizen based on his race. How the hell is that worse than what Tim Kennedy did? Tim Kennedy went and killed people in a country under the guise of giving the people he was killing freedom.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Washington was respected by his enemies, who knew him and his tactics quite well. A great deal of the respect for Mandela is accompanied by ignorance of the man and his tactics.

Mandela does deserve respect as a symbol of resistance to racial injustice. He also deserves a good deal more criticism than he receives.

I more or less agree on Mandela, actually. No one is above criticism.

As for the respect that the enemy had for George Washington, you're buying into a bit of an ahistorical reading of the situation. The truth is, if you research the 18th century, and especially the Brits, you'll find that there's a pretty foreign (to us, anyway) class dynamic going on.

If you captured a general or even a lieutenant (both of whom would have been born gentlemen) you would bring him home and wine him and dine him and show him how civilized you were because, of course, it would be rude to do anything else. He'd roam the grounds with your family and you wouldn't even lock his bedroom door. In return, he wouldn't try to escape, because that would also be rude.

None of which meant that you wouldn't hang him once you had convicted him of treason, or that you would hesitate to run a lower class soldier through with a bayonet.

The whole 'respect' thing was nothing more than a way for the upper classes to demonstrate that they had the taste and sensitivity to recognize 'good breading' when they saw it (which, when you think of it, is a pretty necessary part of the game if you want people to buy into the idea that 'good breading' is actually a thing).

The idea that there was any sort of circumstance under which the racist white power structure of south African apartheid would ever express the same kinds of sentiments about a black resistance fighter is a little rich.

 

[devilfisted]

Being a "murderer" and "terrorist" is subjective.

Tim Kennedy terrorized the people of the middle east with his sniper rifle...is that terrorism? Or because you think you are standing up for concepts such as "justice", "democracy" and "freedom" (three things your country interprets differently from the rest of the sane world)?

He killed people in the Middle East, does that make Tim Kennedy a murderer?


Now...Mandela killed people to literally escape being a second class citizen based on his race. How the hell is that worse than what Tim Kennedy did? Tim Kennedy went and killed people in a country under the guise of giving the people he was killing freedom.

The ANC didn't just kill white to lift there people. They killed their own for political power. His wife was feared more by some blacks then they feared whites. They killed any blacks that had different political views and really went after the ones that they thought would have formed political parties. Look up winnies necklace.

 

[Supereem]

The ANC didn't just kill white to lift there people. They killed their own for political power. His wife was feared more by some blacks then they feared whites. They killed any blacks that had different political views and really went after the ones that they thought would have formed political parties. Look up winnies necklace.

I am not trying to justify Winnie or anyone in that batshit insane nation known as South Africa, but I do not think Kennedy (or American's who supported their recent wars) have a leg to stand on. From the perspective I posted above, one could conclude Tim is worse than either of them.

Atleast Winnie was raised a second class citizen as an excuse, Kennedy gets nothing.

 

[Jedi Judah]

Fuckin' hell. Bob Arum was right.

Lol

 

[jeremyemilio]

Logical fallacies. Mandela was a murderer and terrorist. What messiness did George Washington get into? You compared the two.

There's this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Expedition

Well... unless aboriginal women and children don't count...

 

[Limbo Pete]

Hey Guys, does anyone wanna talk about Tim Kennedy?

I tried to see if anyone else had ever seen that episode of Deadliest Warrior that he was on.

Alas.

I find, as an aspiring historian (gonna get that degree, dammit!) that most historical debate done in the public arena neglects to realize you can understand why something happened without condoning it. It is also impossible to fully place ourselves within the context of a historical movement which occurred before our times, and yet most people don't notice when they apply the standards and practices of the 21st century to eras that did not have them. Presentism only serves to stifle honest historical discussion.

 

[devilfisted]

I am not trying to justify Winnie or anyone in that batshit insane nation known as South Africa, but I do not think Kennedy (or American's who supported their recent wars) have a leg to stand on. From the perspective I posted above, one could conclude Tim is worse than either of them.

Atleast Winnie was raised a second class citizen as an excuse, Kennedy gets nothing.

Kennedy is following the orders of the ones who are the real evil c$nts! If he refuses to follow orders he will be charged. You can refuse orders to kill unarmed civilians but that is about it. Plus we don't really know what he did over there. I bet if you ask the Curds they will have a much better opinion of the us military then the rest of Iraq does. Plus there is no excuse that I would except for the necklacing of innocent people including women and children.

 

[devilfisted]

I tried to see if anyone else had ever seen that episode of Deadliest Warrior that he was on.

Alas.

I find, as an aspiring historian (gonna get that degree, dammit!) that most historical debate done in the public arena neglects to realize you can understand why something happened without condoning it. It is also impossible to fully place ourselves within the context of a historical movement which occurred before our times, and yet most people don't notice when they apply the standards and practices of the 21st century to eras that did not have them. Presentism only serves to stifle honest historical discussion.

I saw it and was impressed.

 

[Limbo Pete]

There's this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Expedition

Well... unless aboriginal women and children don't count...

Thank you. Another interesting historical personage to evaluate would be President Andrew Jackson. Many Americans rank him as one of the great Presidents; I can see why they would think that now, and I can see why he was very popular at the time. It's a perfectly valid opinion to have. The contributions and integrity he brought to the office he held are unquestionable. However, he also slaughtered and oppressed a great deal of Native Americans, not limited to but including various bands of Choctaw (one of the 2 tribes that I am). So, from our perspective, he was a real son of a bitch.
Historical study is all about perspective, and historical debate should be, too.

 

[Goodfella86]

Pat Barry just got killed!

lol this made me laugh. yeah, that was tough to see. I can't believe the mods still haven't deleted or moved this thread. they clearly see what it's all about.... it belongs in the war room. they must enjoy this argument and want it to be seen on by the most sherdoggers here on the UFC forum.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I saw it and was impressed.

Thanks! So was I!

 

[devilfisted]

lol this made me laugh. yeah, that was tough to see. I can't believe the mods still haven't deleted or moved this thread. they clearly see what it's all about.... it belongs in the war room. they must enjoy this argument and want it to be seen on by the most sherdoggers here on the UFC forum.

I wonder what was going through Dukes head at the moment that uppercut landed?