through observ/sparring can u gauge the level of an opp

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devante

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many times i will hear a ufc or ifl or strikeforce or elite show or read fighter interviews; an another fighter will comment, saying such and such is a legit blue/purple/brown/blkbelt.. at least in regards to skills on the mat.

or you will see someone who has like a certain level of belt and he will spar w/people from a diff school or whatnot; an people will say he might be a blue, but he has purple belt skills or he is a purple belt, but has brown belt skills.

can u gauge a guys skills by observing or rolling w/them; have u trained w/someone and had them be at a certain level, but based off your experience your thinking this guy is good enough to be at a higher belt level.

for those who wrestle, guys will comment on gsp or penn and people will say they have very good wrestling; yet neither guy has a wwrestling background, but high level wrestlers say they have the ability/skill to compete at a high college level -national or world level

have u had a person comment on your grappling level on a favorable level saying your at a higher rank than you are, or maybe give u props on wrestling..etc.
 
secondly if grappling a new guy w/no prior knowledge, can u tell what style they do or what background they have; given sooo many people cross train, can u deciminate what is their dominant art or foundation.

i mean can u hit the mat w/a guy and say oh he is def a wrestler, or def a bjj guy, catch guy, sambo guy, judoka or maybe its just a guy who is more of a guy w/grappling exp
 
A lot of schools won't promote you unless you train in the gi, and a lot of pro-fighters don't spend much time in the gi.

hence they can be a blue belt, and may fight like a blue belt with the gi on, but in No-Gi they're an easy brown belt.


Also other times they aren't training under an instructor actively that can promote them. some people may be years overdue for a promotion and just not get it because there's no one to give it to them.


personally when I was a white belt nobody treated me like a white belt, and even master mansor would tell the higher ranks to disregard the color of my belt, and as a blue belt it's been very similar. i think that was more about racking up medals though...
 
good response i was just curious if u could really gauge rank or skill level by rolling and what rank or how much exp do u have to have to make that assesment; do u need to be at a higher rank to recognize it or do u need exp rolling w/higher levels to make that estimation
 
once you've rolled with enough guys at different levels it's easy to tell who is where just by watching them. so i guess the answer is experience
 
if i can easily pass your guard or if you have mount or side control and cannot submit me then i would know that you are a white belt. its not rocket science.
 
ther is a flow to rolling .. you can kinda guage a persons skill by the way they flow thru transitions and into the next position . a person who just is so smooth that they hardly seem to be moving at all .. thats when you know dude has skills
 
It's easy to gauge the level of a grappler with actually rolling with them. It's not too difficult to gauge the ability by observing them in a grappling match, however in MMA, everything blows right out the door. I've watched UFC fights where I've said that I could take that guy in a grappling match and then have had the privilege to actually train with that person and get schooled, and on the same token I've seen and trained with UFC fighters that look like I would get owned grappling and have the opposite happen. Training MMA in general has been a huge eye opener for me and how different the actual grappling is when strikes are involved. Most people, even in the grappling section can't even begin to fathom how vastly different it is until they train it.
 
devante said:
for those who wrestle, guys will comment on gsp or penn and people will say they have very good wrestling; yet neither guy has a wwrestling background, but high level wrestlers say they have the ability/skill to compete at a high college level -national or world level

have u had a person comment on your grappling level on a favorable level saying your at a higher rank than you are, or maybe give u props on wrestling..etc.
Click to expand...

Even though GSP didn't compete in wrestling, he's been training wrestling with elite level wrestlers for the past decade. It's scary how good he is with the combination of his wrestling and BJJ.

On Haylik's point, does anyone have any recent videos of GSP just pure grappling?
 
hayliks said:
It's easy to gauge the level of a grappler with actually rolling with them. It's not too difficult to gauge the ability by observing them in a grappling match, however in MMA, everything blows right out the door. I've watched UFC fights where I've said that I could take that guy in a grappling match and then have had the privilege to actually train with that person and get schooled, and on the same token I've seen and trained with UFC fighters that look like I would get owned grappling and have the opposite happen. Training MMA in general has been a huge eye opener for me and how different the actual grappling is when strikes are involved. Most people, even in the grappling section can't even begin to fathom how vastly different it is until they train it.
Click to expand...

Amen bro. I went from training MMA to a BJJ only school to focus on my ground game, and its extremely frustrating. When striking is allowed the game is completely different, and in my opinion better. I have rolled with guys, who when i mount them just pull their arms to their chest to prevent me from submitting them. In MMA this would not fly. I could either make him eat fists or if i was really wanting the submission he would give me his arms after 4 or 5 hammerfists.
 
Greero said:
Amen bro. I went from training MMA to a BJJ only school to focus on my ground game, and its extremely frustrating. When striking is allowed the game is completely different, and in my opinion better. I have rolled with guys, who when i mount them just pull their arms to their chest to prevent me from submitting them. In MMA this would not fly. I could either make him eat fists or if i was really wanting the submission he would give me his arms after 4 or 5 hammerfists.
Click to expand...

when i sparred mma w/people i noticed it as well; guys who were light years better than me on the ground weren't able to do what they used to do in grappling cus now im socking them in the face, so many things that would work in straight grappling just gets you a beating when strikes are involved

basically the striking levels the playinh field and closes the dist between opp on the ground, to an extent the same can be said regarding standup
 
hayliks said:
It's easy to gauge the level of a grappler with actually rolling with them. It's not too difficult to gauge the ability by observing them in a grappling match, however in MMA, everything blows right out the door. I've watched UFC fights where I've said that I could take that guy in a grappling match and then have had the privilege to actually train with that person and get schooled, and on the same token I've seen and trained with UFC fighters that look like I would get owned grappling and have the opposite happen. Training MMA in general has been a huge eye opener for me and how different the actual grappling is when strikes are involved. Most people, even in the grappling section can't even begin to fathom how vastly different it is until they train it.
Click to expand...

I agree with this assessment.
 
There have numerous times in pro events, that I have seen a BJJ BB get owned on the ground by someone with like 6 months training. That is humbling.
 
I wouldn't take this belt nonsense seriously. Throw their pedigree/dojo master lineage out the window. When you lose the gi and add punches to the face, belts hardly matter.

Just at the last UFC event (UFC 85 Hughes vs Alves) Kevin Burns -- a BJJ blue belt -- subbed BJJ black belt Roan Carneiro.

For those that missed it
b61ug8.jpg
 
wow. the ultimate fall from grace.... a black belt submitted by a lowly blue belt...
 
Greero said:
Amen bro. I went from training MMA to a BJJ only school to focus on my ground game, and its extremely frustrating. When striking is allowed the game is completely different, and in my opinion better. I have rolled with guys, who when i mount them just pull their arms to their chest to prevent me from submitting them. In MMA this would not fly. I could either make him eat fists or if i was really wanting the submission he would give me his arms after 4 or 5 hammerfists.
Click to expand...

that's right but you have to get to mount first. BJJ has always been about positional dominance before submission. By that definition you were winning anyway.
 
There have numerous times in pro events, that I have seen a BJJ BB get owned on the ground by someone with like 6 months training. That is humbling.
Click to expand...

name these BBs dominated by people with 6 months training. If you have seen a bunch it should be no problem.

Which is why BJJ practitioners are so quick to get on their backs?
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about? Training or fighting? Fighting I dont see too many BJJ based guys pulling guard or trying to be on their backs. Training is just that, and you had better be a cool customer on your back for fight time, because its the positions you dont WANT to be in that make or break you.

Hitting makes a big difference no doubt. BUT it does not invalidate BJJ training. EVERYONE trains it to some degree (or at least Judo/Sambo or submission based grappling style) so if EVERYONE is training it how can it not be used/useful?
 
"Add punches in a grappling match and things turn out different"

It turns into MMA, and of course it boils down to who is better in MMA and not a single discipline.

Brilliant thread!
 
the main reason for this thread is the idea that alot of fighters and/or trainers will see someone grapple or train mma w/someone or even fight them; an say this guy is such and such level in bjj or so and so is comparable to a high level wrestler.

i.e. the matt hughes is a blkblt bjj guy and that bj/gsp have wrestling comparable to world class wrestlers; in both cases neither guy is pedigreed in either (to my knowledge), but are given credit to the aspects of their game they have the last amount of exp in.

that is why i asked, have any of you grappled w/a guy who was at one belt level and was much better or someone who was at a belt level an considered much worse after going w/them.

an esp in the grappling have u been able to be impressed w/someone wrestling when in fact they are not actually wrestlers.


finally can u tell what someone background is after rolling w/them or is it impossible to tell.
 
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