Thoughts on Tabata Protocol for Boxing Training?

[PCP319]

Asked a similar question on r/physiology on reddit, but didn't get many responses. Wanted to hear some of your thoughts on using the Tabata Protocol for boxing training. Not random workouts that tout themselves as Tabata, but the actual protocol created for the Japanese national skating team using stationary bikes.

I'm a pretty big guy (5'11", 305lbs.), so I have concerns that I'd even be able to push myself hard enough to truly reap the full benefits of the protocol, especially if you get into something like IDE200 (a seemingly better protocol proposed by the original researcher not too long ago), which I'm not even sure can be done practically without the ability to measure VO2 Max.

I've thought about the idea of trying it on a heavybag, but realized that was nonsense, as there's no real way to push as hard as necessary, and it's much harder to measure failure.

Jump roping isn't really possible in my gym (short ceilings), and jogging destroys my arthritic knees, so looking for something low-impact. I love rollerblading, but not really for cardio, so that's out, too. Wanting to see if I can just do Tabata and heavybag work for my cardio, and get into fighting shape, even at a higher weight, like 250 or so (305 right now).

The appeal of Tabata is that it works both anaerobic and aerobic systems to a great extent, and can be done in just 4 minutes, but I fear that the stress on the aerobic system won't be enough. It did help me pass the CPAT (firefighter physical test) a couple years ago at about 270lbs., but boxing is a whole different animal.

 

[deadshot138]

Even if you can't reap the full benefits, from what I've read on here the only way to is to use an air bike, it's still a great conditioning tool.

https://wodwell.com/wod/tabata-this/ for example try this

 

[MilkManUK]

Yeah airdyne bike or similar, low impact and can be extremely hard work - I definitely would look to build an aerobic base too with some form of LISS. Also, I believe I have seen some of your posts in the standup subforum, but are you a member of a boxing gym yet? Really that would be the best thing.

 

[PCP319]

Yeah airdyne bike or similar, low impact and can be extremely hard work - I definitely would look to build an aerobic base too with some form of LISS. Also, I believe I have seen some of your posts in the standup subforum, but are you a member of a boxing gym yet? Really that would be the best thing.

Not yet, but will start as of next week. Was planning on doing the traditional Tabata Protocol, if possible, wherein a 5th day consisting of LISS would supplement the HIIT. All of this not including boxing training, of course.

 

[WhoElseButYouCelph]

4 minutes wont get you in any kind of shape. You gotta train more if you want to get better. You can do much more than that.

 

[Kirra]

Tabata is decent at getting you to tolerate being at 90+ percent of your max heart rate, but it won't do much to actually improve your cardio.

If you're actually serious about improving your cardio you will have to do multiple rounds of 3-6 minute long intervals with adequate rest time in between.

 

[teepsandbarleywine]

Remember that with the Tabata study, it was performed on already high-level athletes who were made to push themselves to a level of output beyond what most people could realistically achieve. It's also noted that as the study went on longer the HIIT group experienced diminishing returns, whereas the aerobic group continued to make gains at the same rate.

Interval work is great when it's used correctly; but for pretty much anyone starting off, working on your aerobic base is where it's at.

LISS training doesn't have to be a single modality as well - to keep it interesting you can swap between exercises, such as 10 minutes on a stationary bike, 10 minutes skipping, alternating back and forth. One option I quite like is alternating between rounds of skipping and shadow boxing for 2 minutes each with no break. Whatever keeps your lungs working and your heart rate between 65-75% of your HR max for 30+ minutes is great.

Remember as well that your aerobic system is the foundation for all other energy systems - the better it is, the longer you'll be able to go before having to rely on lactic/anaerobic alactic energy systems, and the better your recovery between efforts of these energy systems will be.

No point building a house by starting on the furnishings when your walls and floor aren't in place.

 

[PCP319]

Remember that with the Tabata study, it was performed on already high-level athletes who were made to push themselves to a level of output beyond what most people could realistically achieve. It's also noted that as the study went on longer the HIIT group experienced diminishing returns, whereas the aerobic group continued to make gains at the same rate.

Interval work is great when it's used correctly; but for pretty much anyone starting off, working on your aerobic base is where it's at.

LISS training doesn't have to be a single modality as well - to keep it interesting you can swap between exercises, such as 10 minutes on a stationary bike, 10 minutes skipping, alternating back and forth. One option I quite like is alternating between rounds of skipping and shadow boxing for 2 minutes each with no break. Whatever keeps your lungs working and your heart rate between 65-75% of your HR max for 30+ minutes is great.

Remember as well that your aerobic system is the foundation for all other energy systems - the better it is, the longer you'll be able to go before having to rely on lactic/anaerobic alactic energy systems, and the better your recovery between efforts of these energy systems will be.

No point building a house by starting on the furnishings when your walls and floor aren't in place.

Very interesting stuff! Unfortunately, jump roping isn't really practical inside my gym, and it gets way too hot in Florida heat here to do it outside. Open to shadowboxing, but not sure how to do it "right" for cardio. Stationary bikes, I'm okay with, along with, of course, hitting the heavybag.

Roadwork is an absolute no-go. Not even just due to my weight, but my arthritic knees (football).

 

[Sweet Science Of Fighting]

Definitely would not recommend using Tabata: https://sweetscienceoffighting.com/why-tabata-is-not-good-for-fighters/

 

[WhoElseButYouCelph]

Very interesting stuff! Unfortunately, jump roping isn't really practical inside my gym, and it gets way too hot in Florida heat here to do it outside. Open to shadowboxing, but not sure how to do it "right" for cardio. Stationary bikes, I'm okay with, along with, of course, hitting the heavybag.

Roadwork is an absolute no-go. Not even just due to my weight, but my arthritic knees (football).

How old are you?

Do you plan on boxing anyone who wants to win? Because if youre not willing to train outside because its too hot, I lived in FL and now I live in AZ, its not too hot, then you cannot compete. I dont mean you shouldn't, I mean you'll always lose badly by way of not being prepared. So think about what it is you want. You can fucking go outside and jump rope fuck me. Dont ask questions if youre not willinh to do shit. Come on man. Its fucking November!!!!! You gonna box a penguin at his place or something dude?

 

[Badger67]

Very interesting stuff! Unfortunately, jump roping isn't really practical inside my gym, and it gets way too hot in Florida heat here to do it outside. Open to shadowboxing, but not sure how to do it "right" for cardio. Stationary bikes, I'm okay with, along with, of course, hitting the heavybag.

Roadwork is an absolute no-go. Not even just due to my weight, but my arthritic knees (football).

Sprint repeats may be better on your knees than long distance as it is less ground contact time, you can try it out.

Jump rope at night when its cooler. Down protein shake, recover.

Dont stonewall your own process.

 

[NoSmilez]

Your workout is going to suck if it's Tabata and boxing. You aren't going to be able to go all out for so many rounds. Why don't just train with a trainer for 1 hour a day for a month. It doesn't sound like much but the 3 rounds of rope and shadowbox will cause a lot of weight to drop. You need to go through the initial hurdle because you are so heavy. It sucks to move around when you are heavier than normal.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Very interesting stuff! Unfortunately, jump roping isn't really practical inside my gym, and it gets way too hot in Florida heat here to do it outside. Open to shadowboxing, but not sure how to do it "right" for cardio. Stationary bikes, I'm okay with, along with, of course, hitting the heavybag.

Roadwork is an absolute no-go. Not even just due to my weight, but my arthritic knees (football).

How about walking? Much easier on the knees. Even better if you can find a hill somewhere. Walk to the top, turn around and walk down. Set a time limit and try to get more reps in each session. Or increase the time. A good workout and easy on the joints because of the shorter stride.

As others have said, it's much better to build an aerobic base with some form of LISS before attempting more advanced forms of training. And even when you're fit enough to benefit from HIIT, you should still include LISS training.

 

[PCP319]

Your workout is going to suck if it's Tabata and boxing. You aren't going to be able to go all out for so many rounds. Why don't just train with a trainer for 1 hour a day for a month. It doesn't sound like much but the 3 rounds of rope and shadowbox will cause a lot of weight to drop. You need to go through the initial hurdle because you are so heavy. It sucks to move around when you are heavier than normal.

That's true. I know Tabata has difficult recovery times. Just looking for a good way to build my aerobic base without neglecting my anaerobic energy systems, but with little impact on my knees.

 

[Sano]

Remember that with the Tabata study, it was performed on already high-level athletes who were made to push themselves to a level of output beyond what most people could realistically achieve. It's also noted that as the study went on longer the HIIT group experienced diminishing returns, whereas the aerobic group continued to make gains at the same rate.

Interval work is great when it's used correctly; but for pretty much anyone starting off, working on your aerobic base is where it's at.

LISS training doesn't have to be a single modality as well - to keep it interesting you can swap between exercises, such as 10 minutes on a stationary bike, 10 minutes skipping, alternating back and forth. One option I quite like is alternating between rounds of skipping and shadow boxing for 2 minutes each with no break. Whatever keeps your lungs working and your heart rate between 65-75% of your HR max for 30+ minutes is great.

Remember as well that your aerobic system is the foundation for all other energy systems - the better it is, the longer you'll be able to go before having to rely on lactic/anaerobic alactic energy systems, and the better your recovery between efforts of these energy systems will be.

No point building a house by starting on the furnishings when your walls and floor aren't in place.

This is what you need to listen to TS. If you want to get in better shape for anything right now, considering your situation, you need to lose weight and build your aerobic system. You don't have to run, there's a lot of options.

 

[WhoElseButYouCelph]

That's true. I know Tabata has difficult recovery times. Just looking for a good way to build my aerobic base without neglecting my anaerobic energy systems, but with little impact on my knees.

You dont want to work hard and everyone on this board is a weak fatty. Go somewhere else.

 

[PCP319]

This is what you need to listen to TS. If you want to get in better shape for anything right now, considering your situation, you need to lose weight and build your aerobic system. You don't have to run, there's a lot of options.

If I'm being completely honest, I know I should probably focus on my aerobic base, as it's way more specific to boxing. I just hate being moderately out of breath and miserable for 60 minutes, as opposed to absolutely exhausted for 20 minutes, lol.

 

[Sano]

If I'm being completely honest, I know I should probably focus on my aerobic base, as it's way more specific to boxing. I just hate being moderately out of breath and miserable for 60 minutes, as opposed to absolutely exhausted for 20 minutes, lol.

You don't have to do 60 minutes either and it doesn't have to be that strenuous. Even starting out by going for a brisk walk (outside or on a treadmill, perhaps with incline) for about 20-30 minutes a few times a week would be good. Then gradually build up to 30-45 minutes a few times a week. Bike rides, rowing, skipping, running/walking, so on. Anything that's continuous where you can "relax" while moving.

 

[Kirra]

If I'm being completely honest, I know I should probably focus on my aerobic base, as it's way more specific to boxing. I just hate being moderately out of breath and miserable for 60 minutes, as opposed to absolutely exhausted for 20 minutes, lol.

Do medium duration intervals.