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This isn't going to be a popular idea, but I don't think you can just discount a guy that pops.

frye666

frye666

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Look at the list of fighters that have tested positive. Some goats. Some decent guys. Some gatekeepers. Yes, it is cheating, and I agree with that 100%. But JJ, Silva, hell even Brock had something that made them great. I am going to pick Jones here, because he popped the most, and I am not a fan of him. The guy has never lost a fight. He got a DQ. He had a close one with Gus. I just don't think you can erase an entire career for getting busted for roids. And that is just talking about the guys that have been caught. No one really knows who is on the juice. 4 of the best. Silva, JJ, Fedor, GSP. I cannot say this list is any different because 2 popped. Overturn the tainted wins, fine them, suspend them. All that is ok with me. I just don't think you can ignore them as being great fighters.
 
I don't completely discount a guy for failing a test, but I do discount them a bit. Like I can't ignore cheating, but I still think Lance Armstrong is the best cyclist ever.
 
There is a reason Barry Bonds will never be in the Baseball HoF.
 
Ignore them? No. But it definitely taints their legacy. Cheating is cheating.
 
It takes them out of GOAT discussion on principle. But they are still top 5-10 at this point. GSP, Mighty Mouse, Fedor are for sure ahead of them now and then there’s the likes of BJ, Hughes, Aldo, Cruz, DC, Hendo, etc. in the discussion as well.
 
I agree for the most part because they definitely faced guys who were juicing, but they also faced guys who were clean and had a significant advantage.

Jones and Silva are exceptionally talented fighters, but they may not have had the same dominance.
 
How many of Anderson's opponents popped? Does that put them on even ground?

And as for Jones, I think the eye poking is worse for his legacy than the PEDs.
 
Maybe if those said fighters only just popped once or twice then maybe they can't be discounted but when a said fighter for example Jon Jones has multiple failed drug tests that include Steroids, Turinabol, Clomiphene & Letrozole then that said person's accomplishments have to be discounted.

It doesn't help when that said person is has gone to the resort if hiding underneath the cage to avoid drug testing from USADA and has even had the main event cancelled (UFC 200) for testing positive for PEDs

Not even gonna mention how bad was the CSAC hearing was for him.

In this situation his MMA record should be 0-1-22NC under USADA.

Only the last remaining Jones nutthuggers who live in Cuckistan would defend his PED usage by just saying that everyone else does it.
 
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I don't care if a guy cheats, as long as he doesn't get caught. Do as much illegal shit as you can get away with, if you don't get busted then it's not illegal. Simple as that.
 
I don't think long term fans really care about fighters popping but rather don't like it when they get caught. And even then, a lot depends on how a fighter handles it. I see Anderson haters who love Chael for instance.

So its obviously not about the cheating. Its highly likely most fighters have done it at some point. A diuretic like Cowboy. An IV like BJ. Its just the nature of competition.
 
The question remains - How good are the cheats without PEDS? I suspect Jones has cheated his entire career. Do you think he would have the same career wins without PEDS? I think not.

Would Lance have the same number of wins without PEDS - no.
Would Barry Bonds have the same number of HR without PEDS - no
Would Marion Jones have won all of those Olympic medals without PEDS - no
Was Belfort the same fighter without PEDS - no
 
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Once you pop, I start to think, how many times DIDN'T you pop when you could have?
 
I agree since I really believe that most athletes are doping, why wouldn’t they? They have a massive cash incentive to and even drug testing agencies admit how easy it is to pass their tests. I do discredit guys like jones though that have massive physical advantages. His opponents physically could not reach him, especially vitor and dc who are smaller. Notice the only times he fought guys which similar reaches he was unimpressive(osp) and arguably lost to gus
 
Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't.

It's whatever fits their specific agenda at the moment.
 
I don't look at the ones who get caught any differently. Lots of pro athletes dope, and I think you'd have to be a dope to believe otherwise.

Speaking of, I'd like those dopes at USADA to get out, I want to see lab creations doing battle. Doping is the true sweet science, let them concoct bro.
 
Matthew Fedler said:
It takes them out of GOAT discussion on principle. But they are still top 5-10 at this point. GSP, Mighty Mouse, Fedor are for sure ahead of them now and then there’s the likes of BJ, Hughes, Aldo, Cruz, DC, Hendo, etc. in the discussion as well.
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I find this odd. I have no opinion.

But if you take a strong stance on PED use, how do you reconcile putting a PRIDE fighter on there? They were not tested and encouraged to use PEDs.
 
Brandon Wilson said:
There is a reason Barry Bonds will never be in the Baseball HoF.
Click to expand...

That's a terrible example because it's a fucking travesty Bonds isn't in Cooperstown. Dudes used to eat speed like it was candy during the 70s which is a PED, Babe Ruth never had to play against blacks or Latinos, the list goes on but Bonds doesn't get in while being maybe the best hitter since Ruth? Everyone in baseball was on PEDs in that era, and hell Bonds was worthy for the HOF just based on his career before 2000.
 
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