This Is How Effective Grappling Should Be Scored

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Franc Mittelo

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John Danaher, a respected grappler, was on the JRE podcast and said there are 4 fundamental principles of grappling: (1) Get the fight to the ground (2) Get passed the legs (3) Establish dominance (4) Submission (or GnP for MMA). This is exactly how MMA grappling should be scored.

Fighter A takes down opponent. He gets 1 point. Fighter A gets passed opponent's legs. He gets 1 point. Fighter A establishes dominant position (dominant position explained below). He gets 1 point. Fighter A completes the submission. He gets 1 point.

We can adapt the scoring to give submission attempt 0.5 points and half-guard position 0.5 points. This will give the grappling component of MMA a total of 5 points (half the fight).

Staying in the opponent's guard is not a dominant position. Chael Sonnen, Julianna Penna, Kevin Lee and many more have been submitted in the full guard position.

Dominant position is side control or back take or full mount. A position where Fighter A can do maximum damage at very low risk to him/herself. I think this scoring system will deter lay-n-prayers. We want to see a fight and not self-defense "let me control a guy until the police comes to save me."

The scoring can be adapted and tweaked, but I have to stop here, because most Sherdoggers don't have the concentration to read for more than 30 seconds. LOL
 
I confess I'm not a huge expert on it, but if I'm taking someone's word for it, it's definitely John Danaher's.
 
Vegas card counters will be the new judges.
 
Franc Mittelo said:
How?
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You can give half points for doing stuff it just doesn't work. So I can get a total of 5 points for grappling so after I get the 5 points can I repeat the process and get another 5 points? So if he reverses me and gets his 5 then I reverse him back I am stuck with my original 5 making it a draw?
 
Franc Mittelo said:
The scoring can be adapted and tweaked, but I have to stop here, because most Sherdoggers don't have the concentration to read for more than 30 seconds. LOL
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Here is the reason why your threads suck and nobody likes you. Not to mention giving "one point" for a submission? Wake up, go for a walk outside and get your shit together.
 
A better solution is to have one 15 minutes round with soccer kicks, knees to the head and upkicks allowed. That's a fair fight to all styles
 
If fighter 'completes' a submission, no one gives a shit about points anymore....

So not sure what do you mean here.... o_O

Plus, there are fights like later moments of Nurmagomedov vs Barboza, where Khabib hadn't technically passed the legs.

Yet still was in control and punching Barboza time after time.
 
Franc Mittelo said:
John Danaher, a respected grappler, was on the JRE podcast and said there are 4 fundamental principles of grappling: (1) Get the fight to the ground (2) Get passed the legs (3) Establish dominance (4) Submission (or GnP for MMA). This is exactly how MMA grappling should be scored.

Fighter A takes down opponent. He gets 1 point. Fighter A gets passed opponent's legs. He gets 1 point. Fighter A establishes dominant position (dominant position explained below). He gets 1 point. Fighter A completes the submission. He gets 1 point.

We can adapt the scoring to give submission attempt 0.5 points and half-guard position 0.5 points. This will give the grappling component of MMA a total of 5 points (half the fight).

Staying in the opponent's guard is not a dominant position. Chael Sonnen, Julianna Penna, Kevin Lee and many more have been submitted in the full guard position.

Dominant position is side control or back take or full mount. A position where Fighter A can do maximum damage at very low risk to him/herself. I think this scoring system will deter lay-n-prayers. We want to see a fight and not self-defense "let me control a guy until the police comes to save me."

The scoring can be adapted and tweaked, but I have to stop here, because most Sherdoggers don't have the concentration to read for more than 30 seconds. LOL
Click to expand...

I dont think you have a grasp on how scoring is done...

Do you think they give points for each punch or kick that lands as well??

Or you are suggesting they start doing it for striking too?

That would be insane... nobody would be able to count it accurately. You wouldnt even need judges for that... just input the numbers into a machine and let it count and spit the result
 
Being in guard isn't considered a dominant position in the current scoring.
 
In MMA The guy on top is winning the fight because the guy on bottom wants to get up but can't that is the bottom line, it's not a 1 2 3 4 deal, at the end of the round at least for me I say he or she got that round. To me the counter striking and forward pressure is where it gets blurry for the judges. Another thing is that takedown to steal the round crap is only relevant if the round was close, instead of a guy knocking somebody down and working him on the feet , but the last minute he gets taken down and controlled for 1 minute and they give the other guy the round. In the school yard whomever is on top when they say stop won regardless of how you got there, but in a point system not so much.
 
Bet you think they should all wear a Gi as well right?
 
Last edited:
Karelinator said:
If fighter 'completes' a submission, no one gives a shit about points anymore....

So not sure what do you mean here.... o_O

Plus, there are fights like later moments of Nurmagomedov vs Barboza, where Khabib hadn't technically passed the legs.

Yet still was in control and punching Barboza time after time.
Click to expand...


Fedor beat big nog into a living death, while laying in his guard...
 
Verace said:
I dont think you have a grasp on how scoring is done...
Do you think they give points for each punch or kick that lands as well??
Or you are suggesting they start doing it for striking too?
That would be insane... nobody would be able to count it accurately. You wouldnt even need judges for that... just input the numbers into a machine and let it count and spit the result
Click to expand...
Scoring is done "globally" i.e. which fighter looks like he is winning the fight? The scoring system I am suggesting is only putting what judges are already doing into words, to (1) encourage fighters to be offensive and move to finish, (2) keep judging consistent and (3) help fans understand what is going and deter them from getting angry at the judging.
 
Karelinator said:
If fighter 'completes' a submission, no one gives a shit about points anymore....

So not sure what do you mean here.... o_O

Plus, there are fights like later moments of Nurmagomedov vs Barboza, where Khabib hadn't technically passed the legs.

Yet still was in control and punching Barboza time after time.
Click to expand...
(1) Exactly. Submission completes the fight. If a point is given, then it is just formality. No harm done. I don't see the big deal. However, if the submission is completed in Round 5, then we can look at the judges score cards and compare if they were judging "effective grappling" using consistent criteria until the point of the submission. Having this information will be educational for the judges, fighters and fans.

(2) I am aware of this point. If the fight is obvious, then it is obvious. There was no dispute between what we were all seeing in Nurmagomedov vs Barboza. The scoring system I am suggesting is for situations when things aren't so clear. It is a way to make sure what we are seeing matches what the judges are scoring.

It can even get more complicated when Fighter A is the "effective grappler" and Fighter B is the "effective striker." Should the fight be weighted more towards striking or grappling? For example, if Fighter B out-strikes Fighter A for half the round, but Fighter B finds a way to get the fight to the ground for the rest of the round. Who won the round, the better striker or the better grappler?

I am aware of all the complications. However, we still need to have everything in writing so we all know exactly what is it we are suppose to look for when the fight isn't so obvious.

(3) Again, Nurmagomedov vs Barboza was an obvious fight. It wasn't a necessarily a grappling match. It was Khabib basically out-striking Barboza, on the ground. Also, it doesn't conflict with the criteria of "effective grappling" that I am suggesting. GnP is included in the criteria.

Of course, the ideal situation is the fight to end in the most obvious ways. However, sometimes the athletes are evenly matched, and that is when precise scoring criteria comes to play.
 
Franc Mittelo said:
Scoring is done "globally" i.e. which fighter looks like he is winning the fight? The scoring system I am suggesting is only putting what judges are already doing into words, to (1) encourage fighters to be offensive and move to finish, (2) keep judging consistent and (3) help fans understand what is going and deter them from getting angry at the judging.
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but it accounts only for the ground portion of the game and the same cant be applied to the standing... which makes the whole thing not viable
 
Do you expect someone like Adalaide Byrd to be able to follow those rules? And judges are not paid enough to attract smart and professional people.
 
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