This is becoming mind-boggling

[Protagoras]

It's not normal to get punched in the face and keep coming forward, but nearly every fighter does that. What would you like him to do with his arm? Flex it? Wear himself out yanking on Askren's arm even though it's around his chin, not his neck? If you're in a situation where your best option is to wait the other guy out, relaxing sounds like the absolutely right thing to do.

Yeah I know when I’m relaxing during a hard workout or when rolling I just drop my arm with zero control or animation as if I were dead.

You know you may have sprung upon a really great new in fight technique. Instead of trying to get out of a bad position, scramble, or show normal signs of human consciousness, you can just release complete control of your body and collapse like a nerveless corpse or paralyzed person.

You’re a fucking genius, dude.

 

[beastman]

Reffing isn't as easy as some make it out to be. There is a gray area here as it isn't a black and white type situation. Robbie wasn't doing anything to defend the choke there and show the ref he was OK. Should Herb have let it go a little longer, I think so, but Robbie has some responsibility to not be put in that position.

Kind of like when someone gets flash KO'd and starts eating punches but isn't out and everyone blames the ref for an early stoppage. Well, the fighter has some responsibility to not get clipped and knocked down.

 

[fightfan84]

I agree. Either that or Robbie went limp on purpose to trick Askren into letting up. If the latter is the case, then it's 100% Lawler's fault the fight got stopped.

You don't fake shit like that. Ever.

Nope. When a ref thinks a fighter goes out from a choke but isn't certain he does what's called a check. As you can see herb did this check with Robbie. Robbie did 2 things. 1st he kept his arm up when herb grabbed it, that alone should be enough to show he is still awake and in the fight. He still has an option of tapping which sleeping or tapping are the only way fights end from chokes. 2nd he gave the thumbs up, herb didn't see this for whatever reason, but if a ref is going to do a check he should be aware of what the fighter does after the check. Robbie went above and beyond. The ref dropped the ball. That's on him not the fighter

 

[fightfan84]

Yeah I know when I’m relaxing during a hard workout or when rolling I just drop my arm with zero control or animation as if I were dead.

You know you may have sprung upon a really great new in fight technique. Instead of trying to get out of a bad position, scramble, or show normal signs of human consciousness, you can just release complete control of your body and collapse like a nerveless corpse or paralyzed person.

You’re a fucking genius, dude.

His body didn't collapse though. Watch his body language . Just his arm fell. What we know as facts is he responded to a check done by the ref. Clearly not out and clearly a horrible stoppage. The fact the stoppage is being defended sets such a horrible standard for refs. A choke should be tap or sleep. Not a ref assuming what could have happened if he didn't get involved .huge mistake on the ref

 

[fightfan84]

Reffing isn't as easy as some make it out to be. There is a gray area here as it isn't a black and white type situation. Robbie wasn't doing anything to defend the choke there and show the ref he was OK. Should Herb have let it go a little longer, I think so, but Robbie has some responsibility to not be put in that position.

Kind of like when someone gets flash KO'd and starts eating punches but isn't out and everyone blames the ref for an early stoppage. Well, the fighter has some responsibility to not get clipped and knocked down.

Not the same
When it's a choke you tap or sleep. If the ref thinks your sleeping and he can't tell you do a check. Herb did the check and Robbie passed the check. It's not Robbie's fault at that point it's the ref.

 

[The Highlight]

How do so many people, including the NSAC director, not understand the body-language and capacities of someone who has been rendered unconscious!

It is pretty much impossible, for someone who is just waking up, to declare immediately, lucidly, immediately rise (without stumbling), and declare immediately, that they were never compromised in the first place!

When someone goes completely unconscious, they are effectively inebriated! Robbie literally immediately rose, looked at herb with clear eyes (and mind) and rightly, gave herb a piece of his mind! Intelligently!

What confuses me is how many so-called mma “fans”, don’t understand what a guy who has or has not been choked unconscious looks like!

Discuss

I love how all you hypocrites are all up in arms over this stoppage when Lawler wasn't showing any life and arms going limp meanwhile you were fine with the Cejudo/Dillashaw stoppage when TJ was fully aware going for a single-leg takedown on Henry and was abruptly stopped (in a title fight nonetheless).

 

[Anewt]

Don't tell me that its almost impossible. I've seen people who have been flashed kod wake up perfectly in control of their faculties. Some people are adamant they were never kod in the first place thats how quickly some people can recover. Robbies a beast so honestly it wouldn't surprise me. But actually i agree with you. I don't think he went out but watching it live i was sure he was. Now ? I have no idea whether or not he was but i do wish some of his fans pocessed his mentality, regardless if he was or wasn't the way he held himself in the post fight interview doubled my respect for him.

 

[fightfan84]

I love how all you hypocrites are all up in arms over this stoppage when Lawler wasn't showing any life and arms going limp meanwhile you were fine with the Cejudo/Dillashaw stoppage when TJ was fully aware going for a single-leg takedown on Henry and was abruptly stopped (in a title fight nonetheless).

Because Robbie was checked to see if he was conscious and he responded by lifting his arm and giving the thumbs up. Lol it's pretty cut and dry man

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I love how all you hypocrites are all up in arms over this stoppage when Lawler wasn't showing any life and arms going limp meanwhile you were fine with the Cejudo/Dillashaw stoppage when TJ was fully aware going for a single-leg takedown on Henry and was abruptly stopped (in a title fight nonetheless).

Yea cuz...getting drop 3 times in 30 seconds while eating several unanswered shots while shooting a single on an olympic wrestler is totallllyyyy the same as not being in a choke, and giving the ref the thumbs up only for him to stop the fight anyways lmfao

Stay salty my friend

 

[Protagoras]

His body didn't collapse though. Watch his body language . Just his arm fell. What we know as facts is he responded to a check done by the ref. Clearly not out and clearly a horrible stoppage. The fact the stoppage is being defended sets such a horrible standard for refs. A choke should be tap or sleep. Not a ref assuming what could have happened if he didn't get involved .huge mistake on the ref

Well no, it absolutely shouldn’t be “tap or sleep”. It should be the referee’s trained determination that it is unsafe for the fight to continue, regardless of the state of consciousness or acquiescence of the fighter.

I guess Sherdoggers would rather risk someone suffer a fatal or debilitating injury than having a fight potentially stopped early.

You know all businesses should set themselves up like this. Just cater exclusively to the whims of their customers without regard for the safety of their employees.

 

[fightfan84]

Well no, it absolutely shouldn’t be “tap or sleep”. It should be the referee’s trained determination that it is unsafe for the fight to continue, regardless of the state of consciousness or acquiescence of the fighter.

I guess Sherdoggers would rather risk someone suffer a fatal or debilitating injury than having a fight potentially stopped early.

You know all businesses should set themselves up like this. Just cater exclusively to the whims of their customers without regard for the safety of their employees.

So what your saying is refs should be able to stop fights in submission attempts based of the fact they assume the fighter applying it is eventually going to get it anyway? Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha man that might be the worst logic I've heard for this all weekend. Amazingly horrible post. Actually canadite for shit post of the year.

 

[markys00]

This comes down simply to people playing favorites. The wrestling crowd is gonna side with Ben and see one thing, while everyone else sees another.

He wasn’t out

u dont know that

 

[markys00]

oh fuck you all.

robbie looked like he was out. his arm fell down completely limp and he wasn't moving. the fight wasn't stopped because he was out, it was stopped because he gave the appearance that he was out.

it looked like he was out to us watching on tv, it looked like he was out to the commentators who were screaming that he was out, and it fucking looked and felt like he was out to herb dean. the fact that he wasn't actually out makes this a very unfortunate stoppage, but the idiocy being spewed about it by assholes on this forum is the only mind-boggling thing about this whole ordeal.

one of maybe 4 smart replies here
this thread is proof most sherdoggers are very smart.

 

[fightfan84]

one of maybe 4 smart replies here
this thread is proof most sherdoggers are very smart.

The problem lies with herb doing the arm check to see if Robbie was conscious and Robbie responding he clearly was. Anyone who disagrees with that is confused with themselves

 

[Protagoras]

So what your saying is refs should be able to stop fights in submission attempts based of the fact they assume the fighter applying it is eventually going to get it anyway? Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha man that might be the worst logic I've heard for this all weekend. Amazingly horrible post. Actually canadite for shit post of the year.

Hmmm no... what you just said would be a straw man because that wasn’t my argument. Not sure if you have limited reading comprehension or are simply stupid.

The ref needs to have the authority to end a fight if they believe it is unsafe for one of the fighters to continue, within a reasonable and agreed upon framework. Which is actually how it already works.
That’s why we have things like “TKO”.

It’s understood that there are conditions where a fighter may not be fully concussed or otherwise incapacitated, but it’s acceptable to end the fight due to safety issues for one fighter or the other.

So basically I’m describing how the rules are actually set up currently.

I’m not sure what you are actually arguing for. It sounds like something along the lines of a blood sport.

 

[The Highlight]

Yea cuz...getting drop 3 times in 30 seconds while eating several unanswered shots while shooting a single on an olympic wrestler is totallllyyyy the same as not being in a choke, and giving the ref the thumbs up only for him to stop the fight anyways lmfao

Stay salty my friend View attachment 538323

Oh you mean like how Askren took all those unanswered shots early in his fight and was still fine? Oh, ok...….

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Oh you mean like how Askren took all those unanswered shots early in his fight and was still fine? Oh, ok...….

Well thats a different story.. Other refs probably would of stopped that..but herb gunna herb

 

[fightfan84]

Hmmm no... what you just said would be a straw man because that wasn’t my argument. Not sure if you have limited reading comprehension or are simply stupid.

The ref needs to have the authority to end a fight if they believe it is unsafe for one of the fighters to continue, within a reasonable and agreed upon framework. Which is actually how it already works.
That’s why we have things like “TKO”.

It’s understood that there are conditions where a fighter may not be fully concussed or otherwise incapacitated, but it’s acceptable to end the fight due to safety issues for one fighter or the other.

So basically I’m describing how the rules are actually set up currently.

I’m not sure what you are actually arguing for. It sounds like something along the lines of a blood sport.

That's not how submission works at all. Submission especially a choke, is either tap or go to sleep . Nothing more nothing less. It's never the judgment call of the ref. So you are wrong my friend

 

[The Highlight]

Well thats a different story.. Other refs probably would of stopped that..but herb gunna herb

Exactly my point. The refs are so inconsistent it's a joke. A fight shouldn't be stopped unless a fighter is literally dead-weight and not moving, that would remove all gray areas and make it a legit stoppage.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Exactly my point. The refs are so inconsistent it's a joke. A fight shouldn't be stopped unless a fighter is literally dead-weight and not moving, that would remove all gray areas and make it a legit stoppage.

Naw..strikes are different then subs..

Submissions like chokes should or could be left till the persons completely out..

But eating repeative concussive blows , and just waiting till someone stops moving isnt refereeing ..thats way too dangerous.. Thats how boxers have been killed in the ring and thats with 14 to 16 oz gloves..4 oz gloves would be devastating ..