Economy The Western housing crisis

[method115]

I think he's Canadian so they don't have government backed fixed rate mortgages up there like we do in the US IIRC.

Ah ok that makes sense.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

They just announced there are 55 million here on Visas, let alone illegals. Get a few 10s of million of them, annd illegals, out of the country and housing prices will come down real fast.

Same with Europe too

 

[Broke Lester]

Not going to comment on that tax as I'm not aware of the details. I'm okay with allowing some relief for taxes on a primary residence so I'd probably disagree with not taxing their other homes extra since the whole point is to favor those living in their homes.

One option that I didn't mention is to build an accessory dwelling unit on the property and either renting the ADU itself or moving into it and renting the primary house. That way they can remain on their property while adding more housing to the market.

If they're actually slumlords and only buying rental properties without investing in them and generally shirking on their maintenance, instead taking advantage of rising land values to extract more rent, then its scummy and imo that's why we should have a tax on the value of land instead of a property tax since it punishes rent seekers like slumlords while rewarding those who create value through investments.

But what's happening here is no tax relief on the primary residence and higher rate on an extra dwelling if not rented, so if I have a cottage then I have to pay a higher rate on the cottage.

The accessory dwelling only works in some settings, you can't just start popping them up everywhere without taking parking and overall crowding into account, although I'm not against it and think we'll see alot more of that happen as prices go higher, kind of like the old country when they add an addition to the existing family home for you and your bride type of deal.

I just said slumlords cause that's what they sometimes call someone who has even just one rental property, but yes actual slumlords can get fucked.

 

[Broke Lester]

So? If you can't afford your house getting a roommate to bolster household income is natural and older parents living with adult children, especially if they have grandkids, is hardly uncommon. You're not entitled to live on a given plot of land that you can't afford without having to make any trade offs for it.

A room mate/ renter sure, just not your own adult kids was the point, they can drop the grandkids off anytime.

 

[Mr Holmes]

So then these people paid into those systems already didn't they? It was deducted prom their paychecks for years.

Assuming the number from the video are correct, they'll receive much more than what they put into it.

Good for you bro size up all you want, just remember the bigger the house the more cleaning ya gotta do.

Yeah, thats the draw back.

 

[Broke Lester]

They just announced there are 55 million here on Visas, let alone illegals. Get a few 10s of million of them, annd illegals, out of the country and housing prices will come down real fast.

Same with Europe too

But the left said that illegal immigration wasn't the cause of higher rent prices, I believe the line of reasoning was the more something is in demand the lower the cost, economics 101. I tried to explain the rate of home builds doesn't match the rate of immigration and then I became a biggot somehow.

 

[Islam Imamate]

But what's happening here is no tax relief on the primary residence and higher rate on an extra dwelling if not rented, so if I have a cottage then I have to pay a higher rate on the cottage.

The accessory dwelling only works in some settings, you can't just start popping them up everywhere without taking parking and overall crowding into account, although I'm not against it and think we'll see alot more of that happen as prices go higher, kind of like the old country when they add an addition to the existing family home for you and your bride type of deal.

I just said slumlords cause that's what they sometimes call someone who has even just one rental property, but yes actual slumlords can get fucked.

Idk what the situation is in Canada but in the US if anything property taxes are excessively low which strains local budgets and yet people still complain about having to pay them. Property taxes are easily one of the better taxes out there in terms of balancing trade offs and yet for some reason they bother the average, unthinking voter a lot more than more damaging taxes like income or corporate taxes. If it were up to me we'd raise property taxes to cut income, corporate, and capital gains taxes.

A room mate/ renter sure, just not your own adult kids was the point, they can drop the grandkids off anytime.

We all have to make trade offs in life.

I don't think seniors are entitled to live on a piece of land without paying taxes and if they can't afford it they'll have to make some kind of trade off, either renting out part of the property or consolidating family incomes under one roof or getting a part time job or selling the property.

 

[Broke Lester]

Assuming the number from the video are correct, they'll receive much more than what they put into it.


Yeah, thats the draw back.

IF they live long enough.

 

[Islam Imamate]

But the left said that illegal immigration wasn't the cause of higher rent prices, I believe the line of reasoning was the more something is in demand the lower the cost, economics 101. I tried to explain the rate of home builds doesn't match the rate of immigration and then I became a biggot somehow.

You have a point but the issue there isn't that we have too many immigrants, its that there's too much red tape that slows down the process of home building. The solution is to cut the red tape, not deport immigrants.

And in fact its usually those Boomer homeowners asking to abolish property taxes that also want to keep out as much housing from their area as possible which drives up the cost of renting and buying. They want their property ownership subsidized but they also want a veto on how their neighbors use their property. That is the root of the housing crisis, at least in North America.

 

[Broke Lester]

Idk what the situation is in Canada but in the US if anything property taxes are excessively low which strains local budgets and yet people still complain about having to pay them. Property taxes are easily one of the better taxes out there in terms of balancing trade offs and yet for some reason they bother the average, unthinking voter a lot more than more damaging taxes like income or corporate taxes. If it were up to me we'd raise property taxes to cut income, corporate, and capital gains taxes.

We all have to make trade offs in life.

I don't think seniors are entitled to live on a piece of land without paying taxes and if they can't afford it they'll have to make some kind of trade off, either renting out part of the property or consolidating family incomes under one roof or getting a part time job or selling the property.

Maybe that's why we have such a difference in opinion, for example in Toronto and surrounding area if you have a 3000sq. ft. home say 1/3 acre, your average yearly tax rate probably going to be about 6 to 10K depending on exactly where you are, what are your average yearly rates for a comparable home in a major US city?

 

[Broke Lester]

You have a point but the issue there isn't that we have too many immigrants, its that there's too much red tape that slows down the process of home building. The solution is to cut the red tape, not deport immigrants.

And in fact its usually those Boomer homeowners asking to abolish property taxes that also want to keep out as much housing from their area as possible which drives up the cost of renting and buying. They want their property ownership subsidized but they also want a veto on how their neighbors use their property. That is the root of the housing crisis, at least in North America.

I think the root of our crisis is putting the cart before the horse. We don't have the infrastructure, highways are always packed, our public transit systems are limited, our sewer systems are 30 years behind on maintenence and we really don't have too many huge properties but more cookie cutter neighbourhoods and yet things are still very congested. We have plenty of open land that can be developed first, then bring more people in. Instead they keep bringing people in and shoe horn them somewhere and people wonder why the rents are so high. Add to that when someone brings up those legitimate concerns they automatically get called some "ism" and it doesn't fix any of the problems.

In addition to that the immigrants themselves sometimes live in terrible conditions. My friend is an electrician, the company he works for has service contracts with a few rental apartments. Anyways this guy goes to a service call in a unit cause the electrical fuses keep tripping. He tells me the the entire floor of the unit was covered with mattresses, every single outlet was maxed with cell phones, electronics, etc. and they're wondering why the fuses keep blowing, it's cause 12 people are squeezed into a living in a space meant for 3-4. They're selling these people a lie.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Maybe that's why we have such a difference in opinion, for example in Toronto and surrounding area if you have a 3000sq. ft. home say 1/3 acre, your average yearly tax rate probably going to be about 6 to 10K depending on exactly where you are, what are your average yearly rates for a comparable home in a major US city?

Varies a lot across the country but its basically ~.9%-1.1% though like I said there's a lot of variance so you can find places with formal/effective tax rate that is lower or higher than that range. Impromptu research tells me that New Jersey has the highest rate at 2.23% and Hawaii the lowest at .32% with the average New Jersey resident paying $9k while in Hawaii they pay $2k. My metro area has an effective tax rate of .85% so slightly lower than the national average.

How much is a 3000sqft home on a 1/3rd acre lot worth in Canada? In the suburb of a major metro area here that would be worth quite a bit I think so paying $6k to $10k on it doesn't sound that unreasonable to me in such cases. But again there's a a lot of variance.

 

[Broke Lester]

Varies a lot across the country but its basically ~.9%-1.1% though like I said there's a lot of variance so you can find places with formal/effective tax rate that is lower or higher than that range. Impromptu research tells me that New Jersey has the highest rate at 2.23% and Hawaii the lowest at .32% with the average New Jersey resident paying $9k while in Hawaii they pay $2k. My metro area has an effective tax rate of .85% so slightly lower than the national average.

How much is a 3000sqft home on a 1/3rd acre lot worth in Canada? In the suburb of a major metro area here that would be worth quite a bit I think so paying $6k to $10k on it doesn't sound that unreasonable to me in such cases. But again there's a a lot of variance.

Sound like we're pretty much on par as far as tax rates go. Depending on the neighborhood that house could go for 1.7 to 8M, but the average is around 2M.

 

[avenue94]

Yes boomers have already paid their taxes for 30 years plus, enough is enough. It wasn't the boomers that inflated the cost of homes, it was your politicians, home builders, ridiculous regulations, unions, red tape, zoning laws, etc. why shouldn't a person live out the rest of their lives in the comfort of their long term home?

Also how did they benefit most from the market? It's all relative, if a boomer sells his home in today's market he also has to buy another in today's market, he doesn't get to pocket that money. Now if he bought a few homes that's a different story.

Who do you think voted for measures like capping property taxes or limiting zoning? Politicians are a conduit for voters, they don't just do shit for no reason.

 

[Broke Lester]

Who do you think voted for measures like capping property taxes or limiting zoning? Politicians are a conduit for voters, they don't just do shit for no reason.

We live in a democracy don't we? The 51% have spoken.

 

[avenue94]

We live in a democracy don't we? The 51% have spoken.

And? You're the one claiming that boomers didn't vote for this stuff and shouldn't be blamed for it.

 

[Broke Lester]

And? You're the one claiming that boomers didn't vote for this stuff and shouldn't be blamed for it.

Dude, every homeowner would vote for lower property taxes, as if you made some valid point. As for the zoning laws, the politicians were most likely "lobbied" by the homebuilders, despite what you want, they want fewer homes, built on there timeframe while maximizing and extracting every last dollar from every available lot, So again not not the boomers fault.

 

[avenue94]

Dude, every homeowner would vote for lower property taxes, as if you made some valid point. As for the zoning laws, the politicians were most likely "lobbied" by the homebuilders, despite what you want, they want fewer homes, built on there timeframe while maximizing and extracting every last dollar from every available lot, So again not not the boomers fault.

Sure, it doesn't' make it any less selfish or harmful to society and younger generations.

What's your evidence for homebuilders being to blame? Apparently, in your estimation these folks want to work less and therefore make less money...cuz reasons.

 

[Broke Lester]

Sure, it doesn't' make it any less selfish or harmful to society and younger generations.

What's your evidence for homebuilders being to blame? Apparently, in your estimation these folks want to work less and therefore make less money...cuz reasons.

Where do you live in fantasyland, yeah people looking out for themselves and their future generation is selfish?

Tell me when you've ever had the opportunity to vote on specific zoning laws? Who stands to profit most from home prices being high when new homes are released?

 

[Halifax]

I think he's Canadian so they don't have government backed fixed rate mortgages up there like we do in the US IIRC.

Ours is different in ways as the amortization is 25 years but most set up to renegotiate in 3 or 5 years. I pushed for a 10 year at 2.9% after my 5 was up and my 5 just happened to be up when Trudeau called for election and my warning bells were sounding.

The bank tried to push me to take a 5 year at 2% after my 5 at 2.5% was up and said they don't do 10 years. I pushed back and said i would just go elsewhere and contact my broker to get a 10 and they buckled and gave me what I wanted to keep me

In the end I am paying $1250 a month. $50 more than my first 5 years.

But had i gone 5 years at 2% I would be looking at renegotiate next year at a minimum of 5% and paying hundreds more

I don't think the rate will ever drop as low as 3% again in my mortgage lifetime so I'm high fiving myself

I also consolidated my debt at 5% recently. My credit line and credit card were at 15% and 20.9% so it's a huge interest relief. And I got a raise at work. I no longer pay for daycare so I feel rich.

I got it from hard work after growing up quite poor with no post secondary education. I got mine and I'm still angry at our government and care others can no longee get theirs because my kids may never get theirs on their own unless I can leave them a decent inheritance