Economy The Western housing crisis

[mozfonky]

The western world is overrated. It's essentially riding on its' coattails from when it was actually great 50+ years ago. Since that time there's been a slow, systematic dismantling and debasement of everything that once made it good. Unless people wake up and there's a drastic change of trajectory, eventually the fumes are going to run out.

yup, that's probably why some of these recent events, which are an abrupt turnabout, are happening. The system in the US isn't going down without a fight and it's insane how ideas spread like a disease. The areas I see, it's only now just sinking in that shit's about to get real in terms of the pendulum swinging in the other direction. They've been in lala land the whole time, gotta be shocking to them.

 

[mozfonky]

Insane to me that any government would allow a foreign national to own land despite not living or working in the country and deprive their own citizens of the opportunity or ability to purchase land for themselves.

It should have such a heavy tax involved it's not worth it for the foreign nationals to do without actually living it in and contributing to the local economy.

ya, but money trumps all for this country. These illegals wouldn't even be here if business owners couldn't exploit them. Now these business owners are going to be whining, with justification that they can't get their business done. Americans won't do certain kinds of work because they think they're too good or are just plain fucked up these days. Most americans think they work harder than they really do and they also have attitude which the submissive immigrants don't.

 

[avenue94]

Where do you live in fantasyland, yeah people looking out for themselves and their future generation is selfish?

Tell me when you've ever had the opportunity to vote on specific zoning laws? Who stands to profit most from home prices being high when new homes are released?

California. Prop 13 fucks over future generations, especially when you consider the loopholes for passing property to your children or relatives to avoid a tax adjustment. What about you?

I've voted on zoning laws and projects both directly and indirectly. Do you live somewhere where you don't vote for your local representatives or something?

 

[Broke Lester]

California. Prop 13 fucks over future generations, especially when you consider the loopholes for passing property to your children or relatives to avoid a tax adjustment. What about you?

I've voted on zoning laws and projects both directly and indirectly. Do you live somewhere where you don't vote for your local representatives or something?

Not sure what Prop 13 is, but I'm against any inheritance tax cause those monies have previously already been taxed. The fact that you'd even have to jump through so many flaming hula-hoops to keep your own money is the true crime.

No we don't get to vote on zoning laws, we can voice our displeasure but at the end of the day, it's our representatives that get the actual vote. We all know that politicians are absolutely the most honest people, they could never be swayed by bribes and work against the best interests of the public.

Edit: I live in Toronto.

 

[avenue94]

Not sure what Prop 13 is, but I'm against any inheritance tax cause those monies have previously already been taxed. The fact that you'd even have to jump through so many flaming hula-hoops to keep your own money is the true crime.

No we don't get to vote on zoning laws, we can voice our displeasure but at the end of the day, it's our representatives that get the actual vote. We all know that politicians are absolutely the most honest people, they could never be swayed by bribes and work against the best interests of the public.

Edit: I live in Toronto.

Prop 13 is a limot on property taxes. Inheritance taxes are quite necessary for a healthy democracy, otherwise you end up with an aristocracy...which is what the US has.

If you don't like your politician vote em out. Your desire to play the woe is me card is bizarre. You never answered why homebuilders would limit their TAM by pushing for restrictive zoning btw. What's the logic?

 

[Broke Lester]

Prop 13 is a limot on property taxes. Inheritance taxes are quite necessary for a healthy democracy, otherwise you end up with an aristocracy...which is what the US has.

If you don't like your politician vote em out. Your desire to play the woe is me card is bizarre. You never answered why homebuilders would limit their TAM by pushing for restrictive zoning btw. What's the logic?

Please define restrictive zoning laws, give me an example. and how exactly am I playing woe is me?

Because of logistics, they can only build a certain number of houses with the resources they have. You guys seem to think houses could be built like it's a production line in a factory. They are not purposely limiting the number of house they can build, they only have a certain number of skilled workers who can get the job done so they are limited by that. And at the same time those home builders are the ones who owns the lands that are zoned for new housing and they aren't going to let some other company build on their property and make the lions share of the profit . Say I build 100 houses a year and I want to double that to 200, where are the skilled workers to achieve that?

Before a single house is built you need to lay down the infrastructure to support said houses. First they do the sewers systems, water supply, electrical and gas line feeds, that alone could take 2 years and if they wanted to double their production where are the skilled workers to do that? Then it has to be inspected by the city and pass so they can pour the concrete foundations and that has to be inspected and pass. Then they build the frame, roof and brick the house, all skilled workers that can't be easily replaced. Then the electricians, plumbers and HVAC guys come in and do their thing and that has to be inspected, again all skilled workers. From there they put up the walls and drywall taping, tile the bathrooms, install the washroom fixtures and finish up by installing the electrical outlets, lights. Then they do the flooring and painting.

When the younger generations aren't interested in doing manual labour, please tell me where you find the manpower to build more house in a short time? I know your answer is going to be immigrants, but please tell me, do those immigrants have skills and knowledge to do electrical, plumbing or HVAC? No they don't.

 

[avenue94]

Please define restrictive zoning laws, give me an example. and how exactly am I playing woe is me?

Limiting what homes or properties can be developed and how, and often the red tape that surrounds these projects can be abused.

Because of logistics, they can only build a certain number of houses with the resources they have. You guys seem to think houses could be built like it's a production line in a factory. They are not purposely limiting the number of house they can build, they only have a certain number of skilled workers who can get the job done so they are limited by that. And at the same time those home builders are the ones who owns the lands that are zoned for new housing and they aren't going to let some other company build on their property and make the lions share of the profit . Say I build 100 houses a year and I want to double that to 200, where are the skilled workers to achieve that?

Before a single house is built you need to lay down the infrastructure to support said houses. First they do the sewers systems, water supply, electrical and gas line feeds, that alone could take 2 years and if they wanted to double their production where are the skilled workers to do that? Then it has to be inspected by the city and pass so they can pour the concrete foundations and that has to be inspected and pass. Then they build the frame, roof and brick the house, all skilled workers that can't be easily replaced. Then the electricians, plumbers and HVAC guys come in and do their thing and that has to be inspected, again all skilled workers. From there they put up the walls and drywall taping, tile the bathrooms, install the washroom fixtures and finish up by installing the electrical outlets, lights. Then they do the flooring and painting.

When the younger generations aren't interested in doing manual labour, please tell me where you find the manpower to build more house in a short time? I know your answer is going to be immigrants, but please tell me, do those immigrants have skills and knowledge to do electrical, plumbing or HVAC? No they don't.

This makes no sense. Labor supply isn't fixed, nor are other inputs. Conversely, supply for housing is closer to inelastic. In other words, if you pay more it will be offset by the higher prices you can charge since the supply/demand equation is on the builder's side. Now, that doesn't meant a builder would choose to build a condo complex over a couple McManshions, but that's another story.

Skilled workers can be replaced if you are willing to pay the premium or increase the supply of labor (aka immigration).

You're telling me we can bring in some of the best and brightest immigrants to work in tech, but we can't find similarly skilled labor for construction to bring in?

Let's make this simple: What are examples where home construction firms have lobbied to reduce the supply of housing? You insist this is the case, so put up the receipts.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- Theres a huge house crisis here also.