The Vale Tudo Guard

[Uchi Mata]

How come no one is talking about leg locks?

What do you want to talk about?

 

[Concrete Whale]

What do you want to talk about?

The whole subject. In terms of fighting from your back against someone who is striking I thought that attacking any leg lock such as kneebars, toeholds and heelhooks was a vital part of staying safe / toppling your opponent if he is standing / sweeping / scrambling / getting the sub.

A few months ago there was a video of high level sport BJJ guys playing bottom against MMA guys trying to gnp them and they basically all ended up chaining constant leg sub attempts.

You don't see that many people getting leglocked from below in the UFC (especially since they kicked out Palhares) because of the very high level of competition and everyone has great negative wrestling/BJJ + the rounds and standups. But I would have thought people would be suggesting attacking the legs asap here, especially when we are talking bare knuckle no time limit soccer kicks and stamps allowed ie Vale Tudo.

 

[Concrete Whale]

 

[Uchi Mata]

The whole subject. In terms of fighting from your back against someone who is striking I thought that attacking any leg lock such as kneebars, toeholds and heelhooks was a vital part of staying safe / toppling your opponent if he is standing / sweeping / scrambling / getting the sub.

A few months ago there was a video of high level sport BJJ guys playing bottom against MMA guys trying to gnp them and they basically all ended up chaining constant leg sub attempts.

You don't see that many people getting leglocked from below in the UFC (especially since they kicked out Palhares) because of the very high level of competition and everyone has great negative wrestling/BJJ + the rounds and standups. But I would have thought people would be suggesting attacking the legs asap here, especially when we are talking bare knuckle no time limit soccer kicks and stamps allowed ie Vale Tudo.

I think the leg lock game is an important part of playing off your back, not so much because you're going to finish very often but because it creates threats and thus scrambles which is what you want as the bottom guy (not getting hit, chance to get up or get a superior position). This thread turned into mostly about which guards offer you good punch defense, and leg locks in general don't do that. But what they do do is negate the threat of the punch via forcing your opponent to defend. Super double edged, but sometimes your best option if the alternative is passive defense where you're getting hit a bit. My crew's method involves mostly distance management, but being ready to attack the legs in transition when losing the distance control battle is imminent.

A lot of it is understanding the leg lock positional game, and the level of that game in MMA is super low so it's just not on many people's radars. I think there's still a pretty knee jerk 'leg locks get you punched' attitude with a lot of trainers, even though used correctly I don't think that's the case.

 

[jcandoitbig]

^^^all the way in, or all the way out

 

[Concrete Whale]

I think the leg lock game is an important part of playing off your back, not so much because you're going to finish very often but because it creates threats and thus scrambles which is what you want as the bottom guy (not getting hit, chance to get up or get a superior position). This thread turned into mostly about which guards offer you good punch defense, and leg locks in general don't do that. But what they do do is negate the threat of the punch via forcing your opponent to defend. Super double edged, but sometimes your best option if the alternative is passive defense where you're getting hit a bit. My crew's method involves mostly distance management, but being ready to attack the legs in transition when losing the distance control battle is imminent.

A lot of it is understanding the leg lock positional game, and the level of that game in MMA is super low so it's just not on many people's radars. I think there's still a pretty knee jerk 'leg locks get you punched' attitude with a lot of trainers, even though used correctly I don't think that's the case.

Agree totally. Attacking a leg with confidence will induce most MMA people to bail on whatever they were doing pretty quick and concentrate on getting out.

 

[SBJ]

​

 

[rmongler]

Vale Tudo guard = technical stand up.