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Opinion The truth about George Soros (long read)
- Thread starter Son of Jamin
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No, it's misleading to the point of dishonesty to say that he funded protests. He gave small donations to an organization that a couple of the protesters (acting independently) worked for. It would be like saying that a bank investor funded protests if an employee of the bank protested on their own time. If it weren't for the fact that people are stretching to tie him to it, no one would. And, no, speculator (even big-fish speculator who can influence the action) and destablizer are extremely different, and "critic" is still pushing it.
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Some of the biggest critics of Soros are Jewish themselves. Netanyahu for example, is not a big fan.
The governments of Poland and Hungary are also hardly anti-semitic.
This is how Poland and Hungary dealt with a more legitimate "anti-semite"/Nazi LARPer in Richard Spencer:
The majority of European nations, including the entire Schengen Area,[32] and nations with nationalist governments,[33] have banned Spencer and condemned his message.[34] While promoting his message in a controversial speaking tour in Hungary, Spencer was mocked by the Hungarian newspaper Népszabadság for his claim to be a "racial European", which the newspaper said had no basis in European history, and for his call for "European unity" through a revival of the Roman Empire.[35] In the aftermath of the controversy, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán banned and condemned Spencer.[36] The government of Poland has also banned and condemned Spencer,[37] citing Spencer's Nazi rhetoric and the Nazis' genocide of Slavic "Untermenschen" during World War II.[38] In July 2018, Spencer was detained at Reykjavík airport en route to Sweden and ordered by Polish officials to return to the United States; the successful effort of the Poles to ban Spencer from other parts of Europe arises from the Schengen agreement.[39]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer
It's very convenient for the people involved, to make it seem like the criticism of globalist lobbying, the effect of foreign-funded NGOs, etc. is "anti-semitic", to de-legitimize any voices to the contrary of the accepted narratives.
I would say that the practise of shutting down conversations with cries of anti-semitism, is far more frequent nowadays, than actual anti-semitism. Just like shutting down any opposition in the name of "anti-fascism", is more frequent than actual fascism.
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Knew all this years ago and my view on him hasn't changed.
I am more interested in his former working relationship with Jim Rogers and why they don't seem to friendly these days.
I am more interested in his former working relationship with Jim Rogers and why they don't seem to friendly these days.
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If you look deeply into his extremely lengthy biographical history (complete with business and personal connections) and continue to follow his pattern of behaviors you'll find an extremely unsavory man, at best.
At worst, you'll see him as the walking embodiment of corruption and greed, and it is nothing short of loathsome and vile. You'll see a man who oozes vindictiveness and cares only for the wealth he stands to gain while crushing the less-fortunate underfoot, savoring their pain-filled, soul-crushing and heart-rending cries for mercy.
I'd love to say I was joking and exaggerating for effect... but I am not.
He is as close to your stereotypical medieval-age monster as is possible in modern times. I don't want to overstate his influence, but I have no doubt that the world would be a much better place had he never existed.
I would love to make a comprehensive thread that makes mention, point by point, of all the nefarious plots and schemes he has been involved in.
I''m just glad Russia decided that enough was enough and told him and his huge bank account to fuck off - permanently. His meddling has been tolerated for far too long by far too many countries.
At worst, you'll see him as the walking embodiment of corruption and greed, and it is nothing short of loathsome and vile. You'll see a man who oozes vindictiveness and cares only for the wealth he stands to gain while crushing the less-fortunate underfoot, savoring their pain-filled, soul-crushing and heart-rending cries for mercy.
I'd love to say I was joking and exaggerating for effect... but I am not.
He is as close to your stereotypical medieval-age monster as is possible in modern times. I don't want to overstate his influence, but I have no doubt that the world would be a much better place had he never existed.
I would love to make a comprehensive thread that makes mention, point by point, of all the nefarious plots and schemes he has been involved in.
I''m just glad Russia decided that enough was enough and told him and his huge bank account to fuck off - permanently. His meddling has been tolerated for far too long by far too many countries.
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Er, what? He's spent a huge amount of money making the world a better place. One thing you can't accuse him of is only caring for wealth. The fact that the guy is hated by tyrants around the world and some of the most corrupt people here tells you everything you need to know, really.
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You know Soros is a real piece of shit when Savage is quibbling about semantics, desperately attempting to divert the discussion away from all the provable depravity Soros's adulthood is rife with.
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If there were any provable depravity, people would just prove it rather than personally attack people who ask for proof.
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I wasn't aware anybody thought him being a Jew was relevant. AFAIK he isn't a practicing Jew or has anything to do with Judaism other than that his parents were Jews. I don't think practicing Jews are his biggest fans.
Guy seems like a straight sociopath with a ton of money and a God complex, but that's nothing to do with him being a Jew.
Guy seems like a straight sociopath with a ton of money and a God complex, but that's nothing to do with him being a Jew.
And the Koch brothers are bogeymen for the left.
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Without googling it do you know any other players in this "globalist lobbying". I mean there must be other people funding NGO's and doing similar stuff to Soros.
I personally have only ever heard of Soro's being the evil one. That's because the theory of a globalist conspiracy to destroy the west works best with a Jew in charge.
Also just because you are opposed to Nazi ideology you can still be an antisemite.
The Eastern European don't have a problem with Nazis because they are antisemites. But for the German supremacy aspect of the Nazis.
Those countries had antisemite tendencies long before the Nazis came along. And they still have them now.
Poland and Hungary's government certainly use anti-semitic rhetoric to there advantage.
I am not saying that antisemitism or antifascism doesn't get used to shutting down conversation which is bad.
But in Soros case its a clear cut of antisemitism IMO. Just for the sheer amount of hate, he gets because he has been made enemy number one for Neo Nazis etc.
It is textbook antisemitism. The evil Jew working behind the scene causing all your problems. That stuff is 2000 years old.
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I would gladly inform you, but I've posted long enough to have grown well-aware that you are unwilling to admit error on your part, even in the face of overwhelming evidence; and that engaging you in any type of exchange of ideas is not an exchange, at all - you don't adapt or learn in the face of differing opinions.
There's no benefit to discussing a position with someone who is close-minded, and you are unable (or unwilling) to assimilate new or alternative information; therefore, you are unable to reformulate your opinions appropriately.
I only say this after having viewed your posting habits over a fairly long period of time.
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Poland's and Hungary's governments are some of the closest allies of Israel right now. It would be a pretty big stretch to say, atleast at government level, that there's anti-semitism.
The problems with Soros are a lot more complex than that. To be honest, it is a waste of my time to continue trying to depict why there is such a disdain for Soros in East Europe, because I've done it numerous times, yet the anti-semite label of Soros criticism still persists. But it is a complex matter and has very little to do with the fact that he's Jewish. That is not to say that he is not criticized for being Jewish, because that is certainly happening, but not truly by legitimate individuals, mostly just randoms on the internet, who enjoy the memes.
The fact is that, deservedly or not, he has caught a lot of flack for his meddling in economics and being at the forefront of several economic crashes in East Europe which ended up with people losing their investments and belongings.
He is also a big donor and public supporter of left/liberal movements whereas East Europe are not very liberal, as we know. For decades, East European countries were dependent on his support and most people had to go through the hoops of Soros-funded institutions, including Victor Orban himself, who was initially financed by Soros. Their politics grew separate and the initial student-mentor relationship turned into an openly hostile rivalry.
He is considered a top advisor, by Americans politicians, particularly Democrats, on Eastern European matters, and on numerous occasions he has brought the pressure of American government to local Eastern European governments which he dislikes, often by making it appear that people protesting on the streets is a sign of national instability, which requires international intervention.
His modus operandi regarding Eastern Europe is basically detailed in this e-mail to Hillary Clinton while she was the Secretary of State (which Hillary ended up following to a T). He brings attention to "unrest" caused by protesters, denouncing the government and its ability to rule, and advises America to put diplomatic pressure on the country, while wanting to make it seem as if it is the EU that is accomplishing the feat, so as to prevent them from losing their face, and make them appear the neutered dog they truly are.
The dude is a political player and he has put himself in a public role several times, and has occasionally discussed it openly in interviews, much more so than any "financier", even if his impact may arguably be less than that of some others.
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Yeah fair enough you do seem to be a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than I am
.The most stuff I hear is antisemitic rhetoric but mostly from Europeans or Americans.
The stuff you point out above in Eastern Europe seems to be criticism that can't be classified as antisemitism only.
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I find his insight on markets/finance to be interesting. He has a degree in philosophy and applies it to finance.
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Oh, that's silly. Just a personal attack that you're throwing out because you can't back up your claim. It would be classier to just admit that you don't really know anything specific but you know that your tribe is supposed to hate him.
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Fuck anybody who would send people off to their deaths for a paycheck.
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Yeah fair enough you do seem to be a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than I am
The most stuff I hear is antisemitic rhetoric but mostly from Europeans or Americans.
The stuff you point out above in Eastern Europe seems to be criticism that can't be classified as antisemitism only.
In his defense I'd say that he had a bigger impact in taking down Communism in East Europe than Ronald Reagan ever did.
Problem is that he kind of extends his mentality towards communism, towards any politics he dislikes. That tends to be the mentality among most Cold War-era guys, who were accustomed to the political games of that time, and the intrique of it. They just cannot stop meddling in other people's affairs.
In my opinion you should not have the level of political influence that Soros has had, without putting yourself up for a democratic election.
Even Guardian agrees:
Throughout his career, Soros has made a number of wise and exciting interventions. From a democratic perspective, though, this single wealthy person’s ability to shape public affairs is catastrophic. Soros himself has recognised that “the connection between capitalism and democracy is tenuous at best”. The problem for billionaires like him is what they do with this information. The open society envisions a world in which everyone recognises each other’s humanity and engages each other as equals. If most people are scraping for the last pieces of an ever-shrinking pie, however, it is difficult to imagine how we can build the world in which Soros – and, indeed, many of us – would wish to live. Presently, Soros’s cosmopolitan dreams remain exactly that. The question is why, and the answer might very well be that the open society is only possible in a world where no one – whether Soros, or Gates, or DeVos, or Zuckerberg, or Buffett, or Musk, or Bezos – is allowed to become as rich as he has.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/06/the-george-soros-philosophy-and-its-fatal-flaw
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[N]obody who has read a business magazine in the last few years can be unaware that these days there really are investors who not only move money in anticipation of a currency crisis, but actually do their best to trigger that crisis for fun and profit. These new actors on the scene do not yet have a standard name; my proposed term is 'Soroi'.[72]
That looks like a critic to me. I'm not even saying Soros caused these crisis, but it sounds like an indirect attack by Krugman. Here he is clearly linking Soroi to both speculator and destabilizer. A lot of bad mouthing of Soros has been by misinformed people, saying he "broke the bank of England" or wingnuts saying he is part of a jewish conspiracy. The critic that he did things, within the law, that people consider unsavory is different.
Unrelated to you, but I see a lot of double standard around similar benefactors, the left has been a lot more critical of the Koch Brothers, for example. In general, I've started to think rich people meddling in politics is bad.
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George Soros is being mentioned by everyone from Trump, Orban and war room posters. I found a great article that digs deep into his inspiration, past- and present activities. As so often, the truth is somewhere in the middle...
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The Truth About George Soros
Understanding the Jewish billionaire—who is neither the villain of right-wing caricature, nor the angel of left-wing hagiography
Soros was remarkably clairvoyant about the vast amounts of money, expertise, and political commitment that would be necessary to repair the damage Communism had wrought on Central and Eastern Europe. At a 1989 conference in Potsdam, just months before the collapse of the Berlin Wall, Soros proposed a Marshall Plan for the region. He was, he later recalled, “literally laughed at.” So Soros did what he has since repeatedly done upon encountering a problem that no one seemed intent on fixing: He shelled out his own money.
Over the course of the subsequent three decades, Soros spent billions of dollars funding organizations and initiatives devoted to promoting liberal democracy, independent media, good government, transparency, and pluralism across the former Soviet space. It was all work that the United States and its allies in Western Europe should have been funding, but, as a consequence of the post-Cold War hangover, shortsightedly scrimped. A Holocaust survivor, Soros personally experienced the fragile nature of democracy, and rightly worried that the region could revert back to its dark traditions unless the West consolidated democracy, human rights, the rule of law and market economies. Almost 30 years since the collapse of the Berlin Wall, his fears look evermore prescient.
As a wealthy Jewish financier, it is inevitable that many of the attacks on Soros from European quarters would be laced with anti-Semitic insinuations. Nowhere has this nasty phenomenon been more apparent than in his native Hungary, where, in the wake of the 2015 migrant crisis, Prime Minister Orbán and his Fidesz party have transformed Soros into Emmanuel Goldstein, the target of a nationwide Two Minutes Hate, replete with giant billboards of the grinning billionaire and photos of his face laminated onto the floors of trams. Soros, according to the Orbán propaganda campaign, seeks nothing less than to destroy Hungary from within by overrunning it with Muslim refugees
In the United States, where he is one of the biggest donors to the Democratic Party and left-wing causes more generally, Soros has also collected a coterie of right-wing enemies, not least of them the current president of the United States. When, in the midst of Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s contentious Supreme Court confirmation battle, a pair of female sexual assault victims confronted Arizona Republican Sen. Jeff Flake in an elevator and screamed at him for four minutes, conservatives pointed out that one of the women serves as executive director of an organization—the Center for Popular Democracy—which received $1.5 million from Open Society in 2016 and 2017 alone.
It was with this factoid in mind that, on the eve of the Kavanaugh confirmation vote the following day, Trump tweeted:
But as a matter of simple factual accuracy, the assertion by Trump and other conservatives that Soros had “paid” individuals who protested the Kavanaugh appointment was true. No, he had not signed personal checks to the protesters. But that objection is pure semantics. Soros has, through his philanthropic organs, donated substantial sums of money to the groups that organized the anti-Kavanaugh demonstrations, including the one which staged the most high-profile of them all: the live-televised elevator confrontation. And according to an analysis undertaken by former Wall Street Journal reporter Asra Q. Nomani, “At least 20 of the largest groups” involved in the protests “have been Open Society grantees.”
The mere mention of George Soros’ name in connection with the many political outfits he funds is not intrinsically anti-Semitic.
Yet for all his wistful reminiscences of those bygone days when Republicans and Democrats reached across the aisle, George Soros is an unlikely spokesperson for the virtues of rhetorical and political moderation. Long before a Manhattan real estate developer bellowed about “locking up” Hillary Clinton, Soros had adopted the language of political delegitimization and vilification. “When I hear President Bush say, ‘You’re either with us or against us,’ it reminds me of the Germans,” George Soros said in 2003. “My experiences under Nazi and Soviet rule have sensitized me.” That same year, aping the language of Bush administration war planners salivating over the downfall of Saddam Hussein, Soros called for “regime change” in Washington.
Soros repeated the Nazi analogy in a 2004 profile written by Jane Mayer of The New Yorker, and extended it to other members of the Bush administration. The public statements of Attorney General John Ashcroft, Soros remarked, “reminded me of Germany, under the Nazis. It was the kind of talk that Goebbels used to use to line the Germans up. I remember, I was 13 or 14. It was the same kind of propaganda about how ‘We are endangered’ and ‘We have to be united.’” Skating dangerously close to the sort of anti-Semitic innuendo he and his defenders justly decry whenever it impugns him, Soros told Mayer that, “Bush was just chosen as a figurehead, an acceptable face for a sinister group. Cheney is the Capo.” He would ultimately spend a then-unprecedented $27 million against Bush’s re-election.
Soros’ likening of George W. Bush and those who worked for him to Adolf Hitler and the Nazis wasn’t just hyperbole, or a slip of the tongue. It was a very deliberate comparison he made on numerous occasions to reporters, in his own writings and at high-profile public events. As liberal activists and the mainstream media establish a new code of rhetorical conduct whereby the mere mention of George Soros’ name by someone on the right is now the moral equivalent of distributing copies of Der Stürmer, it’s useful to remember how often Soros himself—asserting his status as a survivor of the Holocaust—called democratically elected American politicians Nazis. If Soros cannot look at American Republicans without seeing the genocidal maniacs who threatened his life as a child, so cannot his defenders look at Soros without visualizing that vulnerable, 14-year-old boy, forever hiding from the Gestapo.
Ultimately, Soros’ utopian conceptions of global governance and a world order run by multilateral institutions without the abiding military primacy of the United States to sustain it seem no more realistic than his father’s faith in the prospects of Esperanto. And by identifying himself so closely with one side of the American political spectrum, Soros may have further hampered his ability to effect positive change abroad.
Polarization, tribalization, partisanship, and a general breakdown in civic discourse are all serious problems in America right now, but they are hardly the exclusive preserve of the American right. And to the extent that these baleful phenomena manifest themselves on the American left, George Soros must answer for some of the damage.
Open Society also funds the Southern Poverty Law Center, the discredited “anti-hate” organization which recently paid a $3.375 million settlement to the British Muslim reformer Maajid Nawaz after slandering him as an “anti-Muslim extremist”—Nawaz being a prime example of a believer in an open society that the George Soros of 30 years ago pledged to support, as a matter of philosophical principle. (SPLC later confirmed that OSF funded the report that put Nawaz on a blacklist.)
There is more than a whiff of hypocrisy to Soros using charges of anti-Semitism, especially given his own use of the same tropes he decries as anti-Semitic against people who object to him. At Davos, Soros referred to Facebook as a “menace” in the process of creating a “web of totalitarian control the likes of which not even Aldous Huxley or George Orwell could have imagined.” During a congressional hearing last summer at which Facebook executives testified, protesters hired by Freedom From Facebook held up posters depicting company leaders Mark Zuckerberg and Sandberg as a two-headed octopus, the very sort of anti-Semitic caricature in which Soros himself often features. Soros and the myriad activists and organizations he funds play the American political game as dirty as everyone else, and then protest that there’s gambling taking place in the casino.
While Soros has been extremely generous in funding a plethora of organizations and individuals committed to promoting the interests of practically every conceivable identity group, there is one in whose welfare he is utterly disinterested: his own. It is ironic that the left’s new poster child for the evils of right-wing anti-Semitism has what can best be described as an ambivalent relationship to Judaism and the global Jewish community. Soros’ own view of this ambivalence is that it is a mark of universalist superiority over his hidebound, retrograde co-religionists. “I don’t think that you can ever overcome anti-Semitism if you behave as a tribe,” he told The New Yorker in 1995, tacitly blaming other, unassimilated Jews for anti-Jewish bigotry. “The only way you can overcome it is if you give up the tribalness.”
According to a 2015 report in The Washington Times, Open Society “gave at least $33 million in one year to support already established groups that emboldened the grassroots, on-the-ground activists in Ferguson,” Missouri, whose 2014 protests over the police killing of an unarmed black teenager led to the creation of Black Lives Matter. That movement supports a genuinely important cause—criminal justice reform—but has in places also espoused virulently anti-police rhetoric, accused Israel of being an “apartheid state” that perpetrates “genocide taking place against the Palestinian people,” and possibly contributed to a nationwide rise in violent crime by discouraging policing.
Once upon a time, George Soros devoted himself to spreading Popper’s ideas of the open society in which freedom of inquiry, free speech, critical thinking, and the personal liberty to hold different views were paramount values. In Europe, those values are under attack from right-wing nationalists and autocrats who admire Vladimir Putin. In America, they are under attack by a president who admires Putin—and by a host of progressive organizations funded by George Soros. It is deeply painful to contemplate the reality that a man who miraculously avoided two great historical tragedies in his youth has decided to spend his old age fueling the fires that threaten to consume the values he spent decades fighting for, and the country that gave him shelter.
https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/274870/the-truth-about-george-soros
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Cliffs:
- Inspired by Karl Popper and an open world
- Heavily affected by the plague of Nazism and Communism
- Supports anti-police movements
- A key figure in polarizing the political climate
- Not the Jewish boogeyman that the alt-reich claims
- Not the humanitarian philanthropist that many in the left claims
TL;DR
He's just Jewish and a wealthy/successful investor and that's enough for the alt-reich dog whistlers. It's also enough for the people stupid enough to fall for the anti-semite propaganda.
In reality he's not even the best at what he does nor is he the only one that does it. He's not the biggest philanthropist on Earth and he's not even a top10 Democrat donor. The Koch brothers alone out spend him by a factor of 10:1.
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