The tragic death of Alfred Kotey

[mozfonky]

Ain't got time for this right now. Sorry.

 

[sweetviolenturg]

That is not the way to tell. Foreman lost more times in his 40s than his 20s. LaMotta went through hell and lived more or less functional to 96.

Dementia is genetic luck with what happens to you factored in. A man can have had no brain damage ever and slip into dementia in his 50s. Others can be hockey players know for their role as fighters and be fine or not fine. No formula mentioned will anticipate the effects of brain damage.

Spot on. There's no way of spotting who will suffer from dementia as a result of their boxing careers & who won't. I use the careers of Ali & Benitez as opposed to George Chuvalo & Ray Mancini as examples. Ali & Benitez for much of their careers were considered very difficult to hit cleanly. They were defensive wizards & yet they both wound up very compromised at a young age. Whereas Chuvalo & Mancini were face-first walk-in bangers who both soaked up a ton of punishment in their careers but they came out of their careers quite healthy. And remain so in their later years.

Then there's my own case. I was another walk-in banger who often took two blows to give one over the course of my 60 fight career. I was also a regular sparring partner for many champions & top contenders. An occupation in which I was paid because of the amount of punishment that I could take while I kept coming forward. And yet, other than needing reconstructive surgery on my neck, I came out of my career with no major damage. I've undergone just about every sort of neurological & cognitive test there is & I've been given a clean bill of health.

So, I think it all depends on an individual's genetic make-up as well.

 

[Heath Robinson]

Excellent post @sweetviolenturg

I agree with you that genetic make-up is a factor, probably a big one.

Having a good chin is obviously an asset in the ring. But in the long run it may be the factor that makes some more likely to suffer neurological issues later on because they sustain more rounds of damaging blows.

 

[sweetviolenturg]

Excellent post @sweetviolenturg

I agree with you that genetic make-up is a factor, probably a big one.

Having a good chin is obviously an asset in the ring. But in the long run it may be the factor that makes some more likely to suffer neurological issues later on because they sustain more rounds of damaging blows.

Thanks much.

Good points. But, again. It all depends on the individual.

 

[mozfonky]

Thanks much.

Good points. But, again. It all depends on the individual.

that's right. However, I don't think the tests catch everything, well, maybe modern tests do but I remember Marvin Hagler having a test done near the end of his career and it coming back fine, I don't believe that. One of my old trainers who been around a zillion fighters said that he had a characteristic drowsy look, I know what he's talking about but I never saw it in any Hagler interviews, so i said "his speech is fine" my trainer said, "not speech, he look sleepy" ( he was japanese) and then did an imitation which ive seen on other fighters. It's like there is an interruption in their consciousness and they just sort of look into space, I've seen hopkins do that a lot in interviews but it's not something i've seen a lot in interviews.

Ali's brain was never studied, but if it were it would probably have been a sad finding.

It's a crazy thing, it seems to be arbitrary when the damage hits, you can easily find Jerry Quarry speaking very well on some commentary at the end of his career, he did have a couple ill fated comeback fights but I seriously doubt all the damage happened in those. Patterson hit a wall at about 60, and even Ingemar Johansenn, who I thought would be fine ended up in bad shape, never know when it'll catch up to you. Same as other injuries, i know of a couple older fighters, Ali and another boxer who only fought ammy, theyn needed neck surgery in their late 50's or so. it all comes back,.

 

[deucesarewild]

Spot on. There's no way of spotting who will suffer from dementia as a result of their boxing careers & who won't. I use the careers of Ali & Benitez as opposed to George Chuvalo & Ray Mancini as examples. Ali & Benitez for much of their careers were considered very difficult to hit cleanly. They were defensive wizards & yet they both wound up very compromised at a young age. Whereas Chuvalo & Mancini were face-first walk-in bangers who both soaked up a ton of punishment in their careers but they came out of their careers quite healthy. And remain so in their later years.

Then there's my own case. I was another walk-in banger who often took two blows to give one over the course of my 60 fight career. I was also a regular sparring partner for many champions & top contenders. An occupation in which I was paid because of the amount of punishment that I could take while I kept coming forward. And yet, other than needing reconstructive surgery on my neck, I came out of my career with no major damage. I've undergone just about every sort of neurological & cognitive test there is & I've been given a clean bill of health.

So, I think it all depends on an individual's genetic make-up as well.

Spot on. There's no way of spotting who will suffer from dementia as a result of their boxing careers & who won't. I use the careers of Ali & Benitez as opposed to George Chuvalo & Ray Mancini as examples. Ali & Benitez for much of their careers were considered very difficult to hit cleanly. They were defensive wizards & yet they both wound up very compromised at a young age. Whereas Chuvalo & Mancini were face-first walk-in bangers who both soaked up a ton of punishment in their careers but they came out of their careers quite healthy. And remain so in their later years.

Then there's my own case. I was another walk-in banger who often took two blows to give one over the course of my 60 fight career. I was also a regular sparring partner for many champions & top contenders. An occupation in which I was paid because of the amount of punishment that I could take while I kept coming forward. And yet, other than needing reconstructive surgery on my neck, I came out of my career with no major damage. I've undergone just about every sort of neurological & cognitive test there is & I've been given a clean bill of health.

So, I think it all depends on an individual's genetic make-up as well.

Yeah, you actually make some great references, Chuvalo in particular. He said chewing gum helped his tough chin but I think that while that helped, he was just an ox of a man. My younger brother ended up playing piano at an event Chuvalo was a name at, and he got to chat him up. This was maybe 5 years ago. He said he sounded very clear and coherent. Wouldn't even think he was an old boxer who took bombs from guys like Foreman and Frazier.

As a side note: It's pretty impressive how far Chuvalo got considering that Canada doesn't have the boxing infrastructure to develop any of its boxers like the U.S.A.

 

[Noveltymortar]

Ain't got time for this right now. Sorry.

No need to be sorry. Just blame the system!

 

[Heath Robinson]

Yeah, you actually make some great references, Chuvalo in particular. He said chewing gum helped his tough chin but I think that while that helped, he was just an ox of a man. My younger brother ended up playing piano at an event Chuvalo was a name at, and he got to chat him up. This was maybe 5 years ago. He said he sounded very clear and coherent. Wouldn't even think he was an old boxer who took bombs from guys like Foreman and Frazier.

As a side note: It's pretty impressive how far Chuvalo got considering that Canada doesn't have the boxing infrastructure to develop any of its boxers like the U.S.A.

Have heard Chuvalo is now, unfortunately, slurring his words and not travelling so well. But the man is 83 years of age. So he had a very good run for a warrior.

 

[deucesarewild]

Have heard Chuvalo is now, unfortunately, slurring his words and not travelling so well. But the man is 83 years of age. So he had a very good run for a warrior.

Well that's a day ruiner. Part of me wishes I had not posted anything and remained ignorantly in bliss. Oh well.

 

[mozfonky]

Have heard Chuvalo is now, unfortunately, slurring his words and not travelling so well. But the man is 83 years of age. So he had a very good run for a warrior.

83 is 83, most people are operating at way less than optimal capacity. However, 10 years ago he spoke as well as you'd expect any former boxer..I saw trouble in a video about 5 years ago. Someone asked him about tyson and he spoke about mike as if he was still in the heavyweight picture.