The search for the elusive triangle

Shemhazai said:
Sure, but the leg press method is WAY stronger. And in the odd event that your opponent doesn't get choked, your legs won't be half as burnt-out.
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I guess I never really thought about having to exert that kind of pressure because, if I get my ankle behind my other knee, the choke is usually very tight and a bit of knee pinching is enough. The biggest problem is getting it locked. There's where I may push a bit with the right leg (assuming I'm pulling the right arm across and my right leg is behind their neck), but that's usually in an attempt to push them over so they can't rotate and ruin my angle, which I think is part of what newerests screen shots show. That is how I usually try to escape (the bottom shot) and the feet/foot on their abdomen posture and lean back is for last ditch effort if my arm is across and I can't get it back. I fight hard for that arm because if I lose it it's usually trouble.
 
I have a similar body type. The best way to finish a triangle to to create a angle with your opponent. If you have short legs and your squared up with your opponent you're going to have a hard time finishing.

The most common mistake I see people make with similar body types, is to cross the leg too soon, pull the head too soon, or just squeeze instead of creating an angle. Here's the steps I use:

1) Throw your leg over the head.

2) Grab your shin with the opposite hand (DO NOT GRAB YOUR FOOT, GRAB YOUR SHIN).

3) Put your other leg on your oppoents hip and use it to turn into your opponent (in the same direction as the leg you've thrown over his head).

4) Finish by putting the free leg over your ankle as normal.

Tell you the truth, 75% of the time when I get to step three and I can tap most people without ever throwing the free leg over.
 
Jinzumkei said:
I have a similar body type. The best way to finish a triangle to to create a angle with your opponent. If you have short legs and your squared up with your opponent you're going to have a hard time finishing.

The most common mistake I see people make with similar body types, is to cross the leg too soon, pull the head too soon, or just squeeze instead of creating an angle. Here's the steps I use:

1) Throw your leg over the head.

2) Grab your shin with the opposite hand (DO NOT GRAB YOUR FOOT, GRAB YOUR SHIN).

3) Put your other leg on your oppoents hip and use it to turn into your opponent (in the same direction as the leg you've thrown over his head).

4) Finish by putting the free leg over your ankle as normal.

Tell you the truth, 75% of the time when I get to step three and I can tap most people without ever throwing the free leg over.
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this basically except with the hand that is no grabbing the shin I push my knee and lock my arm. stops them from pulling out that way and to stack me. plus i walk my shoulders back and can sink it in
 
Zankou said:
I have 30" inseam (despite being 6'1", super-long torso), so only 1/2 inch more than yours, and yet hit triangles more than any other submission. You can absolutely do it, and have an advantage in fact, but you need to do it differently than the classic triangle.

Mike Fowler has a whole dvd set on "Triangles for the Average Joe" that explains how to hit them if you don't have skinny long legs. It's just a somewhat different process, and you have to get used to viewing the triangle as a dominating closed guard position rather than an instant-on submission (the way guys with long legs can use it).

The basic point is that you are unlikely to submit bigger guys with the choke unless you rotate perpendicular. So you need to get good at ways of rotating. But that's actually a side-issue. The more important practical thing is to know what to do when you can't rotate (usually because your opponent is trying to keep you in front of them). Because they are trying to keep you from rotating for the finish, they are stuck. This is a great situation for you. They are stuck in a crushing vice grip. It's exhausting for them, and they are highly exposed -- both arms. So I usually just enjoy squeezing (by extending the legs, a key point, rather than pulling him in and down on yourself, as many do) and attacking the arms with armbars, kimuras, shoulder locks, wrist locks, all the while rotating and tightening at every opportunity. Like a boa constrictor. It may take a couple minutes to finish, but so what? Relax and enjoy this epic closed guard position, because your opponent surely won't.
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I didn't watch any dvds about it, but this is exactly how I do my triangles, and I'm a tall skinny guy. To me, getting perpendicular is by far the most important aspect of the triangle. From there I don't even have to squeeze. Sometimes I can finish without the guys arm across his neck. Its very easy to at least threaten submissions against his arms, and you can also scoop the leg and sweep if you're having a hard time finishing. I never pull the head down unless I'm desperate to finish, I view it as being inefficient.
 
FWTG said:
Looked like he tapped out of exhaustion. The triangle wasn't even close to locked there.
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Wrong. I had the triangle locked in with his right arm across his neck, all I had to do was reach up with my left arm and pull the head down to seal the deal.
 
I had this same problem today. A bigger guy in live training and I have the perfect opportunity to go to a triangle, so I throw my leg behind his neck. Only problem was I couldn't get the other leg locked in on time so I ended up letting him into side control pretty easily after that.
 
angrybandnerd said:
I had this same problem today. A bigger guy in live training and I have the perfect opportunity to go to a triangle, so I throw my leg behind his neck. Only problem was I couldn't get the other leg locked in on time so I ended up letting him into side control pretty easily after that.
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I'm pretty sure I saw you get another stripe today though, so Mauro must like something you were doing. Good work. ;)
 
pcgrob said:
Wrong. I had the triangle locked in with his right arm across his neck, all I had to do was reach up with my left arm and pull the head down to seal the deal.
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Ive watched the video 3 times. Its not even remotely close to a locked triangle. Your right foot isnt only not under your left knee its actually over your left foot. It could have been turned into a teepee triangle but that is NOT a locked triangle choke. Seems like he just tapped because he didnt know how to escape from your having him in that position not an actual choke that would put him out. Kind of odd you would imply the triangle was fully locked when it clearly was about as far from fully locked as you can get...
 
I didn't imply shit about that triangle choke, and I don't dispute that it was not the locked type of triangle that you are speaking about or that it could have been improved. However, like a total fucking assclown, you are claiming that I was not choking my opponent and that you somehow know what he was feeling and that he just "gave up and tapped because he was tired and didn't know how to get out". That is grade A armchair douchebaggery.
 
pcgrob said:
I didn't imply shit about that triangle choke, and I don't dispute that it was not the locked type of triangle that you are speaking about or that it could have been improved. However, like a total fucking assclown, you are claiming that I was not choking my opponent and that you somehow know what he was feeling and that he just "gave up and tapped because he was tired and didn't know how to get out". That is grade A armchair douchebaggery.
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lol. Easy buddy. All I was implying is that it was not close to a locked triangle. You provided it as an example of how to do a triangle so you should be ready for criticism without resorting to childish insults. That was a perfect example of how not to finish a triangle. You got a tap from a newb by pulling his head in an unlocked triangle good for you but dont pretend like it was actually a good display of how to properly finish a triangle.

Go show that to any blackbelt and ask if that was good technique and then get back to us. lol
 
newerest said:
this basically except with the hand that is no grabbing the shin I push my knee and lock my arm. stops them from pulling out that way and to stack me...
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yes I forgot this detail.
 
Zankou said:
I have 30" inseam (despite being 6'1", super-long torso), so only 1/2 inch more than yours, and yet hit triangles more than any other submission. You can absolutely do it, and have an advantage in fact, but you need to do it differently than the classic triangle.

Mike Fowler has a whole dvd set on "Triangles for the Average Joe" that explains how to hit them if you don't have skinny long legs. It's just a somewhat different process, and you have to get used to viewing the triangle as a dominating closed guard position rather than an instant-on submission (the way guys with long legs can use it).

The basic point is that you are unlikely to submit bigger guys with the choke unless you rotate perpendicular. So you need to get good at ways of rotating. But that's actually a side-issue. The more important practical thing is to know what to do when you can't rotate (usually because your opponent is trying to keep you in front of them). Because they are trying to keep you from rotating for the finish, they are stuck. This is a great situation for you. They are stuck in a crushing vice grip. It's exhausting for them, and they are highly exposed -- both arms. So I usually just enjoy squeezing (by extending the legs, a key point, rather than pulling him in and down on yourself, as many do) and attacking the arms with armbars, kimuras, shoulder locks, wrist locks, all the while rotating and tightening at every opportunity. Like a boa constrictor. It may take a couple minutes to finish, but so what? Relax and enjoy this epic closed guard position, because your opponent surely won't.
Click to expand...

Excellent post.

Me personally, I don't have much success with triangles either but it is something I'm working on. When I get to that "pre-triangle" position, basically re-grabbing guard with one of their arms in, I can't seem to get that finishing angle or position so I either turn it into a sweep, armbar or kimura that trapped arm quite easily by bringing my thigh forward and creating a great angle on that elbow. Oh, omoplatas too.

But yeah, I rarely finish a triangle from guard.
 
Well, if you got short, thick legs, I can see a triangle being hard. My legs are big but I can find the position a lot.

I suspect any triangle you get from the guard will be in a scramble or potentially from an armbar.
 
newerest said:
YouTube - Renzo Gracie Demonstrates How To Ttriangle Larger Opponents

watch this video it helps

are your legs short and thick as in muscular or just bulky? If I was you (I'm pretty close 5'7 175-180) I would just try and get my legs to be skinnier. it adds area to triangles.
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Thanks for this, I will try it out. My coach is good and knows his BJJ but Renzo is well.. Renzo. If I can make it work this way, that would be awesome. Notice how he doesn't even get that perpendicular to him.
 
Guys, Braulio Estima has just released a full lesson on video specifically looking at Triangles from the Guard!

The video is packed with lots of variations and different setups to get high percentage triangles from this position.

All of it excellent and very useable.

i cant post an embed video here at the mo as its not on youtube yet, but you can see the preview and 1 full technique (with gi) on the home page of
CageFilm.com - Martial Arts Instruction Online

The full video is only
 
Daihlo said:
Guys, Braulio Estima has just released a full lesson on video specifically looking at Triangles from the Guard!

The video is packed with lots of variations and different setups to get high percentage triangles from this position.

All of it excellent and very useable.

i cant post an embed video here at the mo as its not on youtube yet, but you can see the preview and 1 full technique (with gi) on the home page of
CageFilm.com - Martial Arts Instruction Online

The full video is only
Click to expand...
 
FWTG said:
lol. Easy buddy. All I was implying is that it was not close to a locked triangle. You provided it as an example of how to do a triangle so you should be ready for criticism without resorting to childish insults. That was a perfect example of how not to finish a triangle. You got a tap from a newb by pulling his head in an unlocked triangle good for you but dont pretend like it was actually a good display of how to properly finish a triangle.

Go show that to any blackbelt and ask if that was good technique and then get back to us. lol
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FWTG I have to agree with you. I am just a blue belt but the Triangle is one if not my fav. sub. I have spent alot of time with it. You did put the video up for advice right? Also you are a white belt, accept that you don't know much. I am blue belt and know I don't know much. When you accept advice you will grow much faster.

What is choking him in your triangle? You have one leg on the throat -right. Where is the other choking point? His arm is not pulled across and you there is way to much space to apply the neccessary pressure. I don't see the second choking pressure on the neck.

In a tight triangle you wont' see that much sholder either. Your leg will be straight across the neck and you would be at an angle to your right side. Like FTWG said you would need to break down his posture to lock the triangle.


And yes people with white belts do tap to pressure/exhaustion when they have not been training for very long. I not looking down on you or him because almost everyone has tapped like this when first starting BJJ. I would take some of the advice on the videos posted and show your instruction the video and see what he says.

Like I said I am just a blue so ask your instructor but I think you will be suprised at what he/she tells you.
 
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