the role of the underhook in bottom side / half

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by ohmalley, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. ohmalley

    ohmalley Blue Belt

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    i hear a lot of folks talking about the importance of getting the far side underhook and near side bicep control when you find yourself in bottom half guard and/or side control. i totally get the need for bicep control (keep from getting crossfaced and/or flattened), but i'm fuzzy on why the underhook is so important. i'd love some feedback on this?

    thanks so much ...
     
  2. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    So that you can escape/sweep and not get flattened. It defends the pass as well. If your opponent passes and you have the underhook you can just scissor to your knees before he secures the pass. It's very important.
     
  3. Noskill

    Noskill Created Monkey

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    The underhook is important is you want to work an offense-based halfguard.

    You don't need it if you play a defensive (recover full guard) halfguard. Paw hand and frame is fine then.

    What you need in both cases, however, is never to let THEM have the underhook.

    When it happens, you're about to get passed.
     
  4. philodox

    philodox Orange Belt

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    Good example of far side under hook in bottom side control to escape:

     
  5. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    What Noskill said -- the underhook prevents your opponent from getting an underhook on you, and it also allows you to slide deep under your opponent, which is key for most (but definitely not all) basic half guard attacks.

    Without the underhook, you are forced to play a much more technical half guard game, which can be great as well, but requires much fancier setups (like overhook half butterfly, etc.).
     
  6. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    make sure you put the underhook in deep and with purpose, by that I mean don't half ass it or they will slap on a whizzer and you will get in what Bravo calls the dog fight.

    That being said there are many things you can do with the underhook. It is also good at helping you get on your side and preventing the opponent from controlling you. You also have a potential avenue to a deep halfguard pass where you underhook the far side leg and pass "out the back door".
     
  7. Sloth

    Sloth Brown Belt

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    If you don't have the underhook on bottom half, it becomes a lot easier for the person on top to pin and control your top shoulder which, whether you are on bottom half or bottom side, is a very important part of your body to keep free.
     
  8. lightw8

    lightw8 Orange Belt

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    On the flipside, are there any clear advantages working with an overhook from bottom half guard?
     
  9. Oliver Geddes

    Oliver Geddes Amateur Fighter

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    Overhook from bottom half is a much stronger position submission-wise. Personally, I find it works best in a gi only, because you can get an overhook and collar control, which allows you to control their head with the same hand. If you just do a nogi overhook, you're gonna get crushed nine times out of ten.

    Overhook half you can work triangles, omoplatas, half-butterfly sweeps mainly. But the key thing with overhook half is the bicep/crossface control is -essential-. You don't have it, your overhook is just an underhook for them and you're screwed. You keep a good angle and stop the crossface, the overhook actually gets a chance to work in your favor.

    My
     
  10. RibCrusher**

    RibCrusher** Orange Belt

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    also, watch shogun vs machida 2. shogun gets up twice like this.
     
  11. Mumrik

    Mumrik Silver Belt

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    And watch out for the Brabo choke. Don't work a soft underhook, keep your shoulder down and your upper arm away from your head.
     
  12. ozyabbas

    ozyabbas Purple Belt

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  13. Oliver Geddes

    Oliver Geddes Amateur Fighter

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    It should also be noted that the traditional day one half-guard pass, over/under, head pressure, leg pry, is very very rare these days. At least in places I've seen. Just too unsafe-feeling, so most people seem to work around the outside. Still works, but people prefer methods that seem safer for them. Leglace and head control slice through, knee slice through with shoulder pin and arm pulled up, that kind of stuff. No-one engages the half-guard head on these days.

    Bastards. @[email protected]

    Take care,

    Oli
     
  14. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    very true, which is another reason to stay off your back as well and maintain some level fluidity on the bottom.

    Good call.
     
  15. lightw8

    lightw8 Orange Belt

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  16. Knock Out Ned

    Knock Out Ned el mero mero

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    I'm getting some good advice from more experienced guys today on the forum. I've never even thought about using an overhook when I'm in half guard. I'll have to try it out. To the ts, I always use underhooks (when in half guard) to sweep my opponent (making him/her fall directly to their back), making sure to keep my head close to my opponent's stomach. If you don't have the underhook, it's impossible. If he defends, I let go of the underhook and sweep the other way (going underneath him and between his legs; making sure to keep his leg squeezed between both of mine). I also find that I can still be offensive in half guard (without an underhook) if I just stay in a ball and use my free leg as a barrier between my opponent and I (keeping my shin on the bottom part of his chest). I get kimuras from there a lot or if I can isolate my opponent's arm and put it between his legs (under him) I can him/her someone forward.
     
  17. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    If the guy on the bottom has the underhook, he can use it to get his body underneath the top guy's center of gravity and sweep or escape or take the back.

    If the guy on top has the underhook, he can use it to stretch and flatten the top guy out and pin him to the mat.
     
  18. lightw8

    lightw8 Orange Belt

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    Ive been GIVING the bottom guy the underhook lately in scrambles off half guard, and getting swept. Makes sense.
     
  19. Mumrik

    Mumrik Silver Belt

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    I think
     

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