The purchase of PrideFC in 2007

[eddymotto]

I don't know how to convince you otherwise. JMMA has never done well with foreigner stars. They currently have a strong handful of Japanese superstars who have managed to transcend the sport. JMMA is arguably more popular now in Japan than at any point in history. And Rizin is right now more popular than it's ever been.

not to assign you homework, but would you expand on the current JMMA scene? I kinda thought it was pretty moribund and I am pretty happy to be wrong. Thanks in advance

 

[EndlessCritic]

not to assign you homework, but would you expand on the current JMMA scene? I kinda thought it was pretty moribund and I am pretty happy to be wrong. Thanks in advance

I'm not an expert, but the Youtube views speak for themselves.

For their press conference announcing their 135lb grand prix of 16 Japanese athletes, the Rizin press conference has garnered 486,000 views on Youtube.

The Rizin Landmark press conference from 3 days ago already has 350,000 Youtube views:

Compare for reference the UFC 265 press conference numbers, which are at 625,000 views currently


It isn't American fans driving these numbers for Rizin. It's clearly a new generation of Japanese fans who are being raised on new stars.

 

[Fioretti]

Sure, some Pride die hards were rankled, but (and maybe my memory is fuzzy) it seemed like everyone was stoked for all the possibilities for matches of favorite stars, finally.

That's how I felt about it. I was excited to see the merger and finally get all the fantasy matches we were arguing about for years. I was most excited to finally see Fedor and Cro Cop come to the cage and be able to throw elbows.

 

[Candy Routure]

I can’t believe that was 14 years ago.. I refuse to look at myself in the mirror the rest of the night now.

 

[eddymotto]

I'm not an expert, but the Youtube views speak for themselves.

For their press conference announcing their 135lb grand prix of 16 Japanese athletes, the Rizin press conference has garnered 486,000 views on Youtube.

The Rizin Landmark press conference from 3 days ago already has 350,000 Youtube views:

Compare for reference the UFC 265 press conference numbers, which are at 625,000 views currently


It isn't American fans driving these numbers for Rizin. It's clearly a new generation of Japanese fans who are being raised on new stars.

thanks for the response

 

[ferrisjso]

Even if they wanted to work with the Pride brand I'm under the impression the Pride people basically ignored the UFC purchase and burned everything to the ground.

For the sport though what happened was for the best 1 promotion united almost all of the top talent(at least for awhile). While it didn't last the period after Pride dissolved was probably the best era in UFC history.

 

[HHJ]

That's how I felt about it. I was excited to see the merger and finally get all the fantasy matches we were arguing about for years. I was most excited to finally see Fedor and Cro Cop come to the cage and be able to throw elbows.

Crocop really fell in love with the elbows.

 

[RogerB08]

typical ameriCANS, they buy stuff then they destroy it

The Pride brand was already damaged beyond repair.

 

[HHJ]

What sucks is that we never got to know which fights were fixed.
Kinda weird how 14 years after PRIDE folded, no one ever came forward and said "yeah, I was paid to lose to this guy"... aside from Mark Coleman who strongly implied that he lost to Takada on purpose, no one.

On every "fixed fights" thread, you have the usual parrots claiming that Rampage said he was paid to lose to Sakuraba, which is not was he said at all.

In 2021 we know exactly the same thing that we did when PRIDE folded, aka "the 2 fights Takada won were rigged... we can match these 2 with Don Frye vs Mark Hall 3 & Oleg Taktarov vs Anthony "Mad Dog" Macias in the UFC "

and probably more, but it's probably still a bit touchy as many guys from this era still fight today, and don't need that kind of publicity; in a decade or so, we'll probably know.
Like the Don Frye/Mark Hall bout, just last year Don finally opened up about it, only to declare that it was bullshit and that this fight was not rigged.

Because most fights werent fixed like you are thinking. You cant do shit like that all the time. It will get out.

What they would do is announce or change a fight last minute to influence who they wanted to win,or they would just make guys overmatched.

Why would they need to fix Crocop vs Yamamoto,right? They just wanted Mirko to kill somebody so they can sell him better.

 

[MartinGibson86]

First, nice kick in the balls about making me feel old.

I think more than anything it showed "holy shit, PRIDE is legit" to the American audience, because why the fuck else would you buy it out to own it? It's kind of an admission it was a direct threat -- which many new fans/ revisionists don't understand....

It's garbage = BUY IT OUT!!! Makes no sense.... 1997 to 2006ish, before TUF and the Bonnar Griffin, it was the place to be. Once TUF hit, it was kinda game over. I think they lost their TV deal anyways, so MMA shifted completely over to UFC and American promotions.

Pride wasn't legit. They had some good fighters but the organization was a shit show.Thats why it folded after 7 years.

Again, I ask anyone to name a Japanese fighter over 170 who's relevant anywhere in the world currently.


CroCop, Nog, Fedor, and the mythical Semmy have like 50 combined on their records.


It was a joke of a leagur.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Also he used to be a good grappler too. Held his own against nogueira and got that sick judo hip toss on Ninja.

Ninja is small MW though. Anyone can look good grappling a guy 2 weight classes smaller. There was probably 50 pounds difference.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

As someone who started watching right before the PRIDE acquisition, I was pretty excited. I only watched a couple PRIDE events prior to the buyout, and I was impressed with the quality of the fights but not super into the Japanese-ness. I did enough homework to know that PRIDE had the superior fighters. I was excited to see them in the octagon.

It didn't take me long to see that my happiness going into it was wrong. I was 16 at the time. Don't judge me too harshly.

 

[moreorless87]

Because most fights werent fixed like you are thinking. You cant do shit like that all the time. It will get out.

What they would do is announce or change a fight last minute to influence who they wanted to win,or they would just make guys overmatched.

Why would they need to fix Crocop vs Yamamoto,right? They just wanted Mirko to kill somebody so they can sell him better.

Very early Pride you could argue really it wasnt even accepted this was 100% MMA, the Rickson/Takada fight was promoted that way but some of the other matches like his second fight against Kyle Sturgeon being toned down UWFi pro wrestling wasnt a "scandel", RINGS at the same time was also moving from worked down to earth shoot style to real MMA.

The Takada/Coleman fight though I think shows you why you couldnt get away with fixes, that fight was being called a work pretty much as soon as it happened. Really I think Sakuraba's emergence killed that kind of booking, suddenly there was a legit Japanese talent you didnt need to have fixed fights to beat big name opponents. The when Wand beat Sakuraba(which surely wouldnt have happened in a fixed enviroment) and became popular himself there wasnt the same need for a native star as the only big attraction, guys like Wand, Nog, Crocop and Fedor became significant draws.

Part of me preffers that Pride like environment because the buck stopped with them, fans and the media always had an eye out for fixes and something like say Nog/Ricco needed to be defended. The environment in the US were "legitimacy" is played up so much with the supposed independence of the AC's to me can be more unhealthy as orgs just don't face the same criticism, a bad decision happens and its merely due to an incompetent judge/ref.

 

[Shaddows]

What sucks is that we never got to know which fights were fixed.
Kinda weird how 14 years after PRIDE folded, no one ever came forward and said "yeah, I was paid to lose to this guy"... aside from Mark Coleman who strongly implied that he lost to Takada on purpose, no one.

On every "fixed fights" thread, you have the usual parrots claiming that Rampage said he was paid to lose to Sakuraba, which is not was he said at all.

In 2021 we know exactly the same thing that we did when PRIDE folded, aka "the 2 fights Takada won were rigged... we can match these 2 with Don Frye vs Mark Hall 3 & Oleg Taktarov vs Anthony "Mad Dog" Macias in the UFC "

and probably more, but it's probably still a bit touchy as many guys from this era still fight today, and don't need that kind of publicity; in a decade or so, we'll probably know.
Like the Don Frye/Mark Hall bout, just last year Don finally opened up about it, only to declare that it was bullshit and that this fight was not rigged.

Well, that's the thing...from all I gathered, most fights were not really fixed.
But what I read (at the time), was that they would change the opponent last minute, and provide some matchups they believed would benefit whoever they wanted to win.
Very little "fixing" as in paying off someone to lose, but more arranging matchups they deemed easier bets.

 

[moreorless87]

Well, that's the thing...from all I gathered, most fights were not really fixed.
But what I read (at the time), was that they would change the opponent last minute, and provide some matchups they believed would benefit whoever they wanted to win.
Very little "fixing" as in paying off someone to lose, but more arranging matchups they deemed easier bets.

Honestly though in terms of prefferential booking I think thats WAY more popular in the UFC, Pride was actually always noteble that they gave a lot of their stars really tough style matchups.

You had a few gimmie fights for guys like Crocop mixed in but Mirko also fought Hunt and a then unknown but very dangerous Aleks, Sakuraba was obviously fed to the wolves, Wanderlei fought HW world class kickboxers, etc.

There really werent many big names in Pride were you could say "he was never tested against XXX skill set" because testing those areas was actually part of the attraction not just hiding behind rankings.

 

[HHJ]

It was a joke of a leagur.

The only joke here is you. Hi!

 

[HHJ]

There really werent many big names in Pride were you could say "he was never tested against XXX skill set" because testing those areas was actually part of the attraction not just hiding behind rankings.

This is because the japanese fans never tried to act like they were smarter than the fighters,and respected the attempt more than the record and place in the rankings.

If Sakuraba lost to 3 hws in a row,they would just love him more for giving it a shot,even though it was really excessive,the difficulty of some of his matches.

 

[Nathan LaMontagne]

I think opinions were QUITE divided at the time,depending on how long you were a fan of PRIDEFC

Yeah, I was one of those that was remarkably skeptical (rightfully so)

I distinctly remember being in a bad mood at even the rumours.

 

[HHJ]

Yeah, I was one of those that was remarkably skeptical (rightfully so)

I distinctly remember being in a bad mood at even the rumours.

Yeah that shit hurt.

its not like it was that no one wanted to watch it anymore,or it was declining viewership cos it was stale or anything like that.

 

[moreorless87]

This is because the japanese fans never tried to act like they were smarter than the fighters,and respected the attempt more than the record and place in the rankings.

If Sakuraba lost to 3 hws in a row,they would just love him more for giving it a shot,even though it was really excessive,the difficulty of some of his matches.

I do think it came from a more knoweldgeble fanbase who could judge performances, quality of opponents and the worth of facing bad style matchups over one focused mostly just on hype, records and stats.

The more gimmie fights for the big names were never sold as massive matches, they were accepted much more for what they were, something fighters did in addition to their big matches. Again I think thats healthier than having the legit side mixed in more with the entertainment side.