The light heavyweight division exactly 10 years ago

[Cobra 03]

It's funny, but I know every guy on that list. If you showed me the top 15 in any weight class now days, I bet I wouldn't know half of them.

 

[HHJ]

I think the sport is evolving, but to act like this generation of UFC talent is so far improved is laughable and its a common narrative. People just ASSUME the lower divisions got better, but I mean, at the top anyways, has 155? (No)

I can agree with you here.

 

[HuskySamoan]

I can agree with you here.

I am pretty outspoken about two things in regards to this discussion. 1. The UFC has gotten worse, whether due to them realizing their fans are shit eating morons who will consume what they're fed and don't understand or care what talent, skill and ability are or if it's due to fear of appearing like a monopoly. They're awful at signing prospects nowadays, avoidant of signing dominant takedown artists and perhaps due to the monopoly accusations completely unwilling to sign other promotions top talent even when they come knocking (or perhaps they're just pathetically cheap due to fans not knowing any better so talent has no value). And

2. The sport is clearly evolving in how guys are starting their pro careers more routinely at 18, beginning amateur careers commonly well before that and due to the growth of the sport the talent Has become truly global and high level gyms are way more accessible. But I don't feel like the UFC itself has evolved a ton yet, in a lot of ways its regressed. I'll say this, the lack of depth shocks me in most divisions, for instance 170lbs...There's just not tons of surging guys and prospects, there's like 3 interesting potential contenders in the entire top 15. This is common in most divisions, although many have less than 3 interesting contenders even. Yet somehow look at 170lbs in PFL has 18-0-1 Shamil Musaev, 16-0 Umalatov, 12-0 Ramazanov, 12-0 Kuramagomedov, they snatched up Baki and Doumbe as prospects too. Meanwhile the UFC signs full time landscapers that are WWs to get beat up by Bo Nickal, resigns Mickey Gall, signs a bunch of 9-2 club level regional fighters. I just wonder what the fucks happening.

 

[orca]

and still people argue whos the GOAT

lmaaoooo

just post the freakin resume and slap em all to jones haters
haha

 

[Dr. Rose]

He has beaten 9 on that list. Insane

But not Hendo...


in MMA at least.

 

[Neck&Neck]

Virtually identical

 

[Pequeño Corey]

Completely lmao at the Cain Stan arguing there is no sea level. Jan dominated the grappling, there isn't an argument otherwise. He literally got a takedown in every round. The fight went to split decision my guy and cardio obviously played a part.

He got takedowns, but couldn’t threaten with subs or land any gn’p. Dude was gn’p Izzy in the 4th and 5th, but couldn’t really do anything more than land a TD after 1 round with Alex. Part of being a dominant grappler is having the economy of movement to keep it up for 3 rounds, which Jan clearly does not have. He tried to expose Alex’s grappling, but instead found that he doesn’t have the chops to pull it off. Close and competitve, yes, but just not quite good enough. Jan underestimated Alex’s abilities on the ground and blew his wad trying to capitalize on a hole that wasn’t quite as big as he thought it was.

By all accounts, Ank is expected to have that level of grappling, but just doesn’t appear to prefer using it. What I would love to see, and what would silence many, is Alex to defend against Ank on the ground for a few rounds and survive to get the KO later. I’d like to see him work through some more adversity from a more highly regarded grappler than Jan.

 

[blaseblase]

chael was always an 85er tho

The current champ came up from 185. I don't think there's any question that the version of Evans in those rankings would wrestlefuck most of the guys in the rankings today.

 

[blaseblase]

He got takedowns, but couldn’t threaten with subs or land any gn’p. Dude was gn’p Izzy in the 4th and 5th, but couldn’t really do anything more than land a TD after 1 round with Alex. Part of being a dominant grappler is having the economy of movement to keep it up for 3 rounds, which Jan clearly does not have. He tried to expose Alex’s grappling, but instead found that he doesn’t have the chops to pull it off. Close and competitve, yes, but just not quite good enough. Jan underestimated Alex’s abilities on the ground and blew his wad trying to capitalize on a hole that wasn’t quite as big as he thought it was.

By all accounts, Ank is expected to have that level of grappling, but just doesn’t appear to prefer using it. What I would love to see, and what would silence many, is Alex to defend against Ank on the ground for a few rounds and survive to get the KO later. I’d like to see him work through some more adversity from a more highly regarded grappler than Jan.

lol at couldn't threaten with subs. Am I talking to Stevie Wonder?



Tell you what, lets make a deal. You state out loud here that elevation played no part in Cain losing to Werdum and I'll do the same for Jan, allowing you to win the argument. However, if you can't do that you are a hypocrite.

 

[blaseblase]

Made a lengthy post of my assessment. Fully and openly acknowledge that there’s waaaaay better grapplers in this 2013 era than currently. Jones, DC, Davis, and Bader are terrible matches for Alex. Chael could get TDs all day, but he’s pillow fisted with terrible sub defense. I don’t see him beating Alex, but if he did, it would be via lnp.

So everyone that Striker Fox brought up except for Chael (he said possibly, not that he would favor him). I'm not seeing how that's a hater post if you mostly agree. I think you just have to accept that the division was a lot deeper back then and filled with wrestlers. Gustafsson was a striker and still dominated Pereira's toughest fight via wrestling.

I'm not here to hate on Pereira, I've been talking about the weakness of the LHW division long before he became champion. Jones, DC, Bader, Davis and Anderson all left the division in the span of a few years, Rumble retired, Gus became shot, Glover got old and still managed to win the title. The new fighters that came in just haven't been as good, particularly at wrestling. That's mainly why I consider Nemkov to be the best LHW in the world. The UFC guys have been trading the belt back and forth while he's been consistent and also beating former top 5 UFC guys.

 

[Stagliano]

Middleweight and Light Heavyweight have gotten worse, undoubtedly. I'd argue 170lbs has gotten worse too but it's more debatable. 155lbs 10 years ago had prime RDA, Pettis, Bendo, Thompson, Nate Diaz, Khabib as a rising contender before getting derailed by injuries...I'd say 155 was arguably better too. The sport really isn't evolving the way idiots claim, especially not with how the UFC is afraid to sign talent but mass signs bums these days.

Lol at mentioning Nate Diaz among the top dogs.

 

[Fergelmince]

Juiced Jones*

 

[Cowboy Kurt Angle]

This division truly died in 2016 when Jones popped hot,

 

[SalvadorAllende]

I honestly think the ryan bader of this time would be champion pretty easy

View attachment 1041644

MW was better too, Same with Welterweight.

That MW division was pretty good and it got better when Yolo and Mousasi climbed the ladder. I think there was a lot of great matchups that could have been made during that time but somehow got lost.

But I disagree with Bader being the champ nowadays. He was a good wrestler but he always had a shaky chin and terrible panic when fighting hard hitters. The way he shoot on Rumble out of complete fear was hilarious.
I do think younger and less morbidly obese Cormier would wrestle his way to a championship these days. He was as good as they come.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Glover: well rounded, criminally underrated. The last of the guys on this list to hold a belt, so he was actually still competitve in this current landscape while being old. Yes, he’d be competitive now, and would never fight Alex, but has the grappling to cause him problems. He’s his professor and trainer, after all.

Maybe an unpopular take but I think late Glover (before his war with Jiri) was better than 2013 Glover.
His offensive wrestling improved a lot and he learned how to use that old man strength he had to his full advantage.

 

[michi972]

They were still dry. Looked worse than that rnc attempt imo. If we’re going to tell lies itt and claim that Alex almost got rnd’d, than let’s at least ackowledge all of the sub attempts in that round.

Well that wasn't my claim, both weren't close

 

[michi972]

He dominated Chael that year

Chael was a middleweight and he also probably was past it after losing 2 title fights.
Rashad lost to little Nog. Idk how he won against Sonnen like this, but after Jones that was his only good performance

 

[michi972]

Good point

Still possibly good enough tho

If he was he definitely wouldn't lose to Lil Nog

 

[mkt]

How does it stack up to today?

View attachment 1041633

Imo this is the one division I don't think you can argue has improved over time.

That must have been before Rumble beat 4 people ranked above him, including #2 and #4. But yes, it was certainly a stronger division then.

 

[mkt]

I can already see where this thread is headed. Veiled Alex hate thread.

There’s lots of name value there, but beyond Jones and DC (debatably #1 and #2 GOAT LHWs), a lot of these guys are way past prime or haven’t quite entered their prime. The one thing this era did have that is lacking today is a diversity in styles. There’s some serious grapplers there that would give Alex some problems.


Gus: Most famous for having a close first fight with Jones. Primarily a striker. Goes on a nice run at LHW with wins over guys like the janitor, old man Shogun and James Tehuna, then faces a murderers row of Jones, DC, and prime Rumble. No shame losing there, but Gus’ skillset couldn’t get him over the hump to beat those kinds of guys. Subbed by Davis, KO by Rumble, decisioned by DC and Jones (albeit in competitive fights). Well rounded at losing to the top guys.

Shogun: 2013 Shogun was toast. 3 knee surgeries later. Last memorable, meaningful thing he did was KO Machida in 09’. I’d pick prime Shogun over any LHW ever, except Jon, but this version wouldn’t dominate today.


Glover: well rounded, criminally underrated. The last of the guys on this list to hold a belt, so he was actually still competitve in this current landscape while being old. Yes, he’d be competitive now, and would never fight Alex, but has the grappling to cause him problems. He’s his professor and trainer, after all.

Bader: We all know what happens when Bader fights a large, intimidating force with TDD and brutal KO power. But, after Rumble violated him, he turned a corner. Honestly, I think that the best version of Bader went to Bellator. ~2016 Bader could be competitve today, but this 2013 version is still susceptible to being KO’d if you could avoid his pressure or intimidate him. Definitely has the wrestling to give AP problems.

Phil Davis really stands out to me as a lock to decision Alex. He only lost to guys with legit wrestling that could stuff a takedown (Bader, Rashad, Rumble). Alex can get taken down, for sure.

You're missing Rumble, who must have just arrived at LHW. He'd be a very tough opponent for Alex

Crazy Stat about Rumble at LHW

I posted this elsewhere, but thought it was worth its own thread. Rumble KO'd Glover, prime Gus, Bader and Little Nog (who was coming off wins over Tito and Rashad) in less than 5 minutes if you count all the fights. You could fit all that in a single round. Put another way, that's 4 KO/TKO's...

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