The Kochs freeze out Trump

[Madmick]

Serious question: Alice Walton is worth almost 35 billion dollars. Do you consider her an elite businesswoman who has been able to to utilize her inherited fortune in a way few other college educated Americans could?

Predictable argument by exception. Jack already tried playing this card. Serious question: do you think Alice Walton can intelligently be analogized to Trump or the Koch brothers as a businesswoman simply because she is an heir?

Forbes is populated by much more knowledgeable business intellects than Sherdog. I think these doggers would be wise to study the comprehensive (yet subjective) "Self-Made Score" rated on a scale of 1-10 (higher is better) that Forbes has implemented. Let's look at some samples:

Oprah Winfrey? 10.
Sergey Brin? 9.
Warren Buffett? 8.
Donald Trump? 7.
Koch Brothers? 5 & 5.
S. Robson Walton? 4.
Jim Walton? 2.
Christy Walton? 1.
Alice Walton? 1. :wink:

Because "serious" people realize that wealth volatility is true for the upper classes, too, and inheriting a fortune doesn't really say anything about your hand in growing or retaining it.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Predictable argument by exception. Jack already tried playing this card. Serious question: do you think Alice Walton can intelligently be analogized to Trump or the Koch brothers as a businesswoman simply because she is an heir?

Yes, of course she can be "intelligently analogized to Trump." Why wouldn't she be?

Forbes is populated by much more knowledgeable business intellects than Sherdog. I think these doggers would be wise to study the comprehensive (yet subjective) "Self-Made Score" rated on a scale of 1-10 (higher is better) that Forbes has implemented. Let's look at some samples:

Oprah Winfrey? 10.
Sergey Brin? 9.
Warren Buffett? 8.
Donald Trump? 7.
Koch Brothers? 5 & 5.
S. Robson Walton? 4.
Jim Walton? 2.
Christy Walton? 1.
Alice Walton? 1. :wink:

Because "serious" people realize that wealth volatility is true for the upper classes, too, and inheriting a fortune doesn't really say anything about your hand in growing or retaining it.

No link, but are you referring to this:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontev...e-score-from-silver-spooners-to-boostrappers/

1: Inherited fortune but not working to increase it: Laurene Powell Jobs

2: Inherited fortune and has a role managing it: Forrest Mars Jr.

3: Inherited fortune and helping to increase it marginally: Penny Pritzker

4: Inherited fortune and increasing it in a meaningful way: Henry Ross Perot Jr.

5: Inherited small or medium-size business and made it into a ten-digit fortune: Donald Trump

6: Hired or hands-off investor who didn’t create the business: Meg Whitman

7: Self-made who got a head start from wealthy parents and moneyed background: Rupert Murdoch

8: Self-made who came from a middle- or upper-middle-class background: Mark Zuckerberg

9: Self-made who came from a largely working-class background; rose from little to nothing: Eddie Lampert

10: Self-made who not only grew up poor but also overcame significant obstacles: Oprah Winfrey

The classification of Trump is not correct.

 

[IDL]

He must know that would be an automatic victory for the Democratic nominee (most likely Hillary)

Hillary Clinton went to Trumps wedding in 2005. Also, trump has donated to the Democratic party in the past.

He could very well be the bull in the GOP china shop.

 

[Rod1]

Predictable argument by exception. Jack already tried playing this card. Serious question: do you think Alice Walton can intelligently be analogized to Trump or the Koch brothers as a businesswoman simply because she is an heir?

Forbes is populated by much more knowledgeable business intellects than Sherdog. I think these doggers would be wise to study the comprehensive (yet subjective) "Self-Made Score" rated on a scale of 1-10 (higher is better) that Forbes has implemented. Let's look at some samples:

Oprah Winfrey? 10.
Sergey Brin? 9.
Warren Buffett? 8.
Donald Trump? 7.
Koch Brothers? 5 & 5.
S. Robson Walton? 4.
Jim Walton? 2.
Christy Walton? 1.
Alice Walton? 1. :wink:

Because "serious" people realize that wealth volatility is true for the upper classes, too, and inheriting a fortune doesn't really say anything about your hand in growing or retaining it.

Indeed but that chart is incredibly misleading its infinitely easier to turn 1 billion into 30 billion than 10,000 into 1 million. Money calls money.

Is it hard to manage said amount of money? sure, but they had people to teach them to become businessmen and a huge pile of capital to work with as opposed to random joe of the street.

Also being smart isnt necesarily being productive, im pretty sure Saddam and Gaddafi were smart as fuck to rise to their positions.

 

[Madmick]

Yes, of course she can be "intelligently analogized to Trump." Why wouldn't she be?

Maybe the fact that she doesn't even run the company she inherited. You were probably thinking of Maryanne Trump.

The classification of Trump is not correct.

It appears you want to take your continuing umbrage to the editorial staff at Forbes.

Indeed but that chart is incredibly misleading its infinitely easier to turn 1 billion into 30 billion than 10,000 into 1 million. Money calls money.

Evidence?

 

[The Diplomat]

I think Trump is a smart guy, he is in no way an idiot. He inherited a good chunk of money, but Trump Sr. was worth $300 million when he died. Trump Jr. has turned that into $10 billion. Of course he's made some bad deals in the past, and I'm sure a lot of his wealth comes from screwing people over, but that's the name of the game.

He loves to use hyperbole a lot, he speaks like someone who exaggerates almost everything. Anyone who attacks him is a horrible person, and most mexicans are rapists. Some, he assumes, are good people.

He's definitely plucking at the emotional heart strings of the conservative section. The fact that his numbers went up after dissing McCain's war service was an anomaly, though.

But yeah, he's a smart guy. But unreasonable and crazy are also words I'd use to describe him and his fan base. I understand wanting to fix the border, but calling all mexicans rapists and murderers is asinine. He uses way too many generalizations to make his points, and his fan base is eating it up. He's going for their guts and hearts, not their brains. He's using W. Bush politics, except he turned the crazy up a few notches.

 

[The Diplomat]

Hillary Clinton went to Trumps wedding in 2005. Also, trump has donated to the Democratic party in the past.

He could very well be the bull in the GOP china shop.

Yeah, I knew about Trump's relationship with the Clintons, which is what makes this all the more weirder. It's almost like he's playing a part, and half of the republican base is eating it up. Hillary doesn't even have to say anything.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

I think Trump is a smart guy, he is in no way an idiot. He inherited a good chunk of money, but Trump Sr. was worth $300 million when he died. Trump Jr. has turned that into $10 billion. Of course he's made some bad deals in the past, and I'm sure a lot of his wealth comes from screwing people over, but that's the name of the game.

He loves to use hyperbole a lot, he speaks like someone who exaggerates almost everything. Anyone who attacks him is a horrible person, and most mexicans are rapists. Some, he assumes, are good people.

He's definitely plucking at the emotional heart strings of the conservative section. The fact that his numbers went up after dissing McCain's war service was an anomaly, though.

But yeah, he's a smart guy. But unreasonable and crazy are also words I'd use to describe him and his fan base. I understand wanting to fix the border, but calling all mexicans rapists and murderers is asinine. He uses way too many generalizations to make his points, and his fan base is eating it up. He's going for their guts and hearts, not their brains. He's using W. Bush politics, except he turned the crazy up a few notches.

Forbes: Trump exaggerating net worth by 100% (link)

 

[The Diplomat]

Forbes: Trump exaggerating net worth by 100% (link)

I don't doubt it. Just more evidence of his hyperbole and exaggerations. $4.1 billion isn't bad, though.

Then again, this Bloomberg report says he's only worth 2-3 billion

Real-estate magnate Donald Trump frequently touts his wealth on the presidential campaign trail. But a new report essentially accuses the GOP candidate of overstating his net worth by billions of dollars.

Bloomberg reporters Caleb Melby and Richard Rubin, citing an analysis by the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, reported Tuesday that Trump was actually worth about $2.9 billion.

That's more than $7 billion less than Trump has said.

http://www.businessinsider.com/bloomberg-donald-trump-wealth-net-worth-2015-7

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Not that I'm a trump fan, because I'm not, but you characterize him as "running independent of fact and reason." How does someone, who would obviously have to be mental defect with that sort of characterization, become a billionaire? Are you saying he is crazy or just he disagrees with you on major topics? Hyperbole?

Howard Hughes?

 

[The Diplomat]

Howard Hughes?

Yeah, there are plenty of examples of extremely rich and successful people being eccentric or flat out crazy. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

I don't doubt it. Just more evidence of his hyperbole and exaggerations. $4.1 billion isn't bad, though.

Then again, this Bloomberg report says he's only worth 2-3 billion


http://www.businessinsider.com/bloomberg-donald-trump-wealth-net-worth-2015-7

That bloomberg report is the one I actually read a few days ago, but I couldn't find it again for this thread. Thanks for the link.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Predictable argument by exception. Jack already tried playing this card. Serious question: do you think Alice Walton can intelligently be analogized to Trump or the Koch brothers as a businesswoman simply because she is an heir?

Because "serious" people realize that wealth volatility is true for the upper classes, too, and inheriting a fortune doesn't really say anything about your hand in growing or retaining it.

I'm legitimately attempting to understand your position in this and the other Trump thread... Are you saying that if Bill and Susan each received the same inheritance from their father and Susan hired a CFA to manage her fortune while Bill went "hands-on" with his money in real estate development, 30 years later, if Susan's net worth is twice Bill's, you would consider that Bill possesses the superior business mind?

 

[RightKnee]

Koch brothers sounds jewish. part of the jewish stranglehold they have on america freezing out candidates they dont like. Trump probably made an anti-israel statement before or didnt asskiss israel enough for their liking.

 

[Madmick]

I'm legitimately attempting to understand your position in this and the other Trump thread... Are you saying that if Bill and Susan each received the same inheritance from their father and Susan hired a CFA to manage her fortune while Bill went "hands-on" with his money in real estate development, 30 years later, if Susan's net worth is twice Bill's, you would consider that Bill possesses the superior business mind?

In that hypothetical Susan has done nothing but delegate every financial decision to someone else, so she might be wiser, but it would be a misnomer to call her a businesswoman in any functional sense of the word, so yeah, Bill would win by default.

In a less hypothetical sense I have yet to see someone demonstrate how performing above this market average is so commonplace among the world's top businessmen. As I demonstrated in the other thread it is clearly an exception achieved by a minority even among the world's wealthiest people over the long term.

 

[2GunTommy]

Makes sense. They're going to put more money on people who actually have a shot at winning, like Rubio, Bush and Cruz. The GOP needs the hispanic vote and they know Trump has been too divisive.

Pretty sure their backing Walker.

 

[2GunTommy]

Trump is 100% correct when he says thee big donors aren't giving Walker and Bush big money because they like the guy. They want to control them when they get in office.

I also like to remind everyone that the all American Koch brothers had their wealth handed to them from Stalin when their grandfather built the Soviet Union's gas refineries.

The fact that the Koch bros are turning their back on Trump Makes me like him a little more.

 

[UpaLoompa]

In a less hypothetical sense I have yet to see someone demonstrate how performing above this market average is so commonplace among the world's top businessmen. As I demonstrated in the other thread it is clearly an exception achieved by a minority even among the world's wealthiest people over the long term.

Stating something is different than demonstrating something. You failed to show your work and when challenged screamed that other people should do your homework for you.

You might be right, I've asked multiple times for actual objective demonstration of Trump's acumen, but you and others arguing on Trump's behalf continue to refuse to provide any such thing.

 

[2GunTommy]

Yes



No. It's more about Trump being such a crazy man that Republican elite wants nothing to do with him.



Just read through the Trump quote thread. I do not feel that my quote is really that contentious.

The republican elite wants nothing to do with him because he is exposing them left and right. Not because hes a "crazy" man. He is a threat to the establishment, left and right.

 

[Madmick]

Stating something is different than demonstrating something. You failed to show your work and when challenged screamed that other people should do your homework for you.

You might be right, I've asked multiple times for actual objective demonstration of Trump's acumen, but you and others arguing on Trump's behalf continue to refuse to provide any such thing.

Oh, look, my favorite nuthugger followed me in here to tell bedtime stories.