The Jordan Peterson Thread - V2 -

You states so much without any foundation because it sounds interesting to put it that way. Go in the real world and try to find anyone that is familiar with him let alone knows much of what he talks about. People just jump on him just like Sam Harris because now I have someone smart that is saying things I want to hear or believe in. Neither, Sam Harris or Jordan Peterson are academics or present arguments with backing that push the needle on anything. It is more or less a lot of personal beliefs wrapped up opinions and psuedo facts that sound nice to people who were thinking the same.

He doesn't have a huge fan base, nor one that is really growing. He only got into the news because some people took offense to what he said about transsexuals. Without that response, he would be just a talking box nobody would have heard of.

Dude, there's room enough for pushback against Peterson without filling your posts with a bunch of false claims.

Amazing that no one seems to be able to fill that space though. That recent Globe and Mail article was line-by-line trash.
 
It seems like people in general, from all sides of the political spectrum, are getting more and more polarized.

Or maybe they’re all just more aware of their differences because of the change in media and interpersonal experience and that’s causing escalation, or some other totally unknown factor or one i haven’t considered, but it is certainly making conversation worse.

Just today about the change of the anthem, it’s ridiculous to me how upset people are. Is the changing of “Sons” to a sex-neutral word “progressive”/part of the Feminist agenda? Yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong, and similarly supporting that change doesn’t mean one agrees with every other initiative or opinion that comes from anyone who claims to be part of that camp. No one is willing to cede any ground, or compromise or...actually even admit to their being a shared reality (I forget where I have heard that phrase, but I think it’s appropriate). If one’s “enemy” says ‘the sky is blue’, it must not be, because admitting it is somehow just gives up too much
 
For someone supporting someone who is anti-PC, you seem hyper sensitive to anything anyone says about Peterson. Maybe, you should think about that.

No you are just spouting nonsense, either you are full of shit, or Jordan Peterson pushed your shit in and now you are bitter.
 
Even as a supporter I can totally understand people's hesitation about jumping on board with Peterson. If you only skim his ideas with a skeptical eye you can easily get the impression that a lot of what he says is either trivially true or convoluted nonsense. His association with so many alt-right figureheads has been less than flattering, though supposedly this is a product of him agreeing to speak with anyone who wants to speak with him. Figures of the left are open to do the same.

If you dig deeper into his work, there is a lot of foundation behind all the notions he's been expressing over the last year, though it's broadly sourced. Some of it starts at a more deeply scientific level, with evolutionary biology and neurophysiology, and then psychology builds on top of that, and then politics builds on top of that. From what I've read he's tried to be earnest in his recruitment of facts from all these different domains. He certainly has the training and expertise that would let him separate the wheat from the chaffe, although sometimes he seems overly sympathetic to some of the less verifiable ideas (specific passages from Jung, for example). Even given that weakness, he's not obligated to speak in absolutely scientific terms 100% of the time. Figuring life out is ultimately more of an artistic endeavor imo.

I'd like to see more criticism come from A. people who have more specialized expertise in the domains he pulls facts from, who can debate the merits of those, or B. people who understand the risks of theoretical stacking (ie. using biology to explain psychology or politics) and can pick apart the edifice he's built as a whole. And I'd like to see these critics not be fucking dishonest hacks, at least once.

He's clearly open to this sort of discussion. He's said plenty of times that he could be wrong, and that people didn't really know what to do with his big "Maps of Meaning" book after it was published. That isn't a gauruntee of its veracity or its shortcomings - in his lectures he talks about a bunch of major books that came off the presses without much fanfare before the relevant community figured out the usefulness of them. These things can take time to digest. Based on popularity alone, his work certainly does seem useful so far.

It sucks that so few people are able to talk about this phenomenon with proper intellectual sincerity. Today's politics are toxic.
 
Also, for those still interested in the Lindsay Shepherd situation, she recently created a club (that's open to the public) called the Laurier Society for Open Inquiry. Last night they hosted a viewing and open discussion of the entire episode of The Agenda that got her in this mess to begin with. I wanted to go but another appointment kept me too late and then I was drunk and figured that was a bad combination of things.

Also I'm pretty sure I swiped her on Tinder the other day.
 
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@Prefect you need to realize that you’ve given no one in this thread reason to believe that you are even aware of Jordan Peterson’s work beyond the most cursory and superficial level. Your criticism of his supporters comes across an awful lot like a description of your own level of ignorance. Feel free to prove me wrong but, to date, your posts suffer from an almost total non-engagement with the actual substance of JP’s philosophy.
 


This interviewer does a pretty great job of pushing back intelligently, and the conversation actually gets more interesting as a result!
 
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You're so wrong here. It's unreal. Go look at his new book on amazon. It's #5 on amazon charts for most read. It already has 358 reviews resulting in a 4.8 star rating. If you read through the reviews they're very very extensive. You're promoting ideas that simply aren't grounded in reality
-"peterson supporters dont even know his ideas outside of blasting pc culture"
-"he doesn't have anything worth saying outside of blasting pc culture"

Your ideological blinders are clearly on. Someone or something got to you along the way and you've determined for yourself to find something wrong with him rather than honestly exploring the truth.

People can't deal with Peterson when it comes to actual substance so they have to use tactics that sound sophisticated but it's just smoke and mirrors. He knows their game and is displaying how to deal with a deceptive web created by people that paid big bucks to learn how to win a argument by intimidation and flimflam.
There is a limited amount of tricks even the most shrewd can dish out when trying to obscure reality. Truth rings like a bell when people hear it and they realize Peterson stock and trade is dealing in truth rather than deception.

One of the more encouraging things I see in today's world is people recognize wisdom vs tactics. people simply aren't buying into the bs being sold no matter how well dressed up it's bin to look modern and the way of the future.
 
If people would actually listen to what he is saying, it is apparent he is not a racist, sexist or hateful guy.

He just says some things people don't want to hear and it triggers them.

That is the world we are in. If someone says something you don't agree with, they are evil.

They have noe substantive basis to argue from so they resort to tactics that void of anything noble.
 
People can't deal with Peterson when it comes to actual substance so they have to use tactics that sound sophisticated but it's just smoke and mirrors. He knows their game and is displaying how to deal with a deceptive web created by people that paid big bucks to learn how to win a argument by intimidation and flimflam.
There is a limited amount of tricks even the most shrewd can dish out when trying to obscure reality. Truth rings like a bell when people hear it and they realize Peterson stock and trade is dealing in truth rather than deception.

One of the more encouraging things I see in today's world is people recognize wisdom vs tactics. people simply aren't buying into the bs being sold no matter how well dressed up it's bin to look modern and the way of the future.

They think about Peterson's writings and lectures is that when you understand, I mean really grasp it and fully wrap your head around it, it resonates in your core as 'true'. I'm working my way through 12 rules for life and the light it's lighting in my mind is something I'm in awe of. And here's the thing: you already knew it. As I'm reading through these chapters and picking up what he's putting down, I already knew these lessons to be true. I already knew them, I just forgot them, or let a myriad of distractions compounded by the passage of time wear them away in my psyche. It resonates in your gut as 'true'.
 
This thread is pointing out what I think about Jordan Peterson. Any complaint about Peterson is met with another Cathy Newman or "clean your room".
well his stans really dont like it when you question their cult leader

when their mothers said "you should try harder because I know you're capable of something better, and this is important" she got an eyeroll and was promptly ignored. jordans greatest insight may be that contextualizing chores as a grand evolutionary struggle for the romantic attention of proto-monkeys actually gets through to certain disagreeable boys
 
well his stans really dont like it when you question their cult leader

when their mothers said "you should try harder because I know you're capable of something better, and this is important" she got an eyeroll and was promptly ignored. jordans greatest insight may be that contextualizing chores as a grand evolutionary struggle for the romantic attention of proto-monkeys actually gets through to certain disagreeable boys
Do you post on Reddit or are you just a plagiarist?
 
Even as a supporter I can totally understand people's hesitation about jumping on board with Peterson. If you only skim his ideas with a skeptical eye you can easily get the impression that a lot of what he says is either trivially true or convoluted nonsense. His association with so many alt-right figureheads has been less than flattering, though supposedly this is a product of him agreeing to speak with anyone who wants to speak with him. Figures of the left are open to do the same.

If you dig deeper into his work, there is a lot of foundation behind all the notions he's been expressing over the last year, though it's broadly sourced. Some of it starts at a more deeply scientific level, with evolutionary biology and neurophysiology, and then psychology builds on top of that, and then politics builds on top of that. From what I've read he's tried to be earnest in his recruitment of facts from all these different domains. He certainly has the training and expertise that would let him separate the wheat from the chaffe, although sometimes he seems overly sympathetic to some of the less verifiable ideas (specific passages from Jung, for example). Even given that weakness, he's not obligated to speak in absolutely scientific terms 100% of the time. Figuring life out is ultimately more of an artistic endeavor imo.

I'd like to see more criticism come from A. people who have more specialized expertise in the domains he pulls facts from, who can debate the merits of those, or B. people who understand the risks of theoretical stacking (ie. using biology to explain psychology or politics) and can pick apart the edifice he's built as a whole. And I'd like to see these critics not be fucking dishonest hacks, at least once.

He's clearly open to this sort of discussion. He's said plenty of times that he could be wrong, and that people didn't really know what to do with his big "Maps of Meaning" book after it was published. That isn't a gauruntee of its veracity or its shortcomings - in his lectures he talks about a bunch of major books that came off the presses without much fanfare before the relevant community figured out the usefulness of them. These things can take time to digest. Based on popularity alone, his work certainly does seem useful so far.

It sucks that so few people are able to talk about this phenomenon with proper intellectual sincerity. Today's politics are toxic.

Why would anyone be hesitant about adopting a value system that has worked, and has scientific backing for over hundreds of years? I don't know how anyone could see it as convoluted nonsense because in his speeches he branches out into where he gets these ideas from and ties them together and moves on to his next point. While I don't agree with Peterson on his archetypal analysis, I don't know enough about the field other than the few lectures I've read/watched.
 
They think about Peterson's writings and lectures is that when you understand, I mean really grasp it and fully wrap your head around it, it resonates in your core as 'true'. I'm working my way through 12 rules for life and the light it's lighting in my mind is something I'm in awe of. And here's the thing: you already knew it. As I'm reading through these chapters and picking up what he's putting down, I already knew these lessons to be true. I already knew them, I just forgot them, or let a myriad of distractions compounded by the passage of time wear them away in my psyche. It resonates in your gut as 'true'.

How the heck can anyone think "it just resonates true" is proof of his statements? The guy is a life coach, not an academic or a truther or an intellectual. Anything that is substantive, doesn't need for it to ring true.
 
The guy is a life coach, not an academic or a truther or an intellectual.

You keep repeating he's not an academic or an intellectual. Care to explain what you mean by that?
 
You keep repeating he's not an academic or an intellectual. Care to explain what you mean by that?

I mean, if you only read the hit pieces on him, you could easily believe that. They're circling the wagons because they know their ideology cannot survive free and open debate.
 
You keep repeating he's not an academic or an intellectual. Care to explain what you mean by that?
>lifetime clinical psychologist with practice
>tenured professor @ top 30 global university
>published research
>*not an academic*
 
I mean, if you only read the hit pieces on him, you could easily believe that. They're circling the wagons because they know their ideology cannot survive free and open debate.
No matter what, it just doesn't fly. By definition he's an academic and an intellectual.

>lifetime clinical psychologist with practice
>tenured professor @ top 30 global university
>published research
>*not an academic*

The most desperate and idiotic attack on Peterson to date.
 
How the heck can anyone think "it just resonates true" is proof of his statements? The guy is a life coach, not an academic or a truther or an intellectual. Anything that is substantive, doesn't need for it to ring true.
It's just an opinion pal, Christ you need to settle down. I casually state an opinion on the impact his book has had on me and you turn that into me asserting it's a proof of his validity. Talk about hysteria. You literally just pulled a "so what you're saying is " without even realizing it
 
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