The Jordan Peterson Thread - V2 -

dontsnitch said:
Nietzsche is one of the most misunderstood philosophers. From "God is dead", to his Superman, to what you're describing.

It's been years since I've read him, but I've always noticed people misquoting him. Hell, even I've been guilty of twisting him to argue about nihilism.
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The nihilist interpretation is by the far the worst and most pervasive one.

It's like people read the line "god is dead" and stopped there, not realizing he'd written "amor fati" right before that.
 
Caveat said:
The nihilist interpretation is by the far the worst and most pervasive one.

It's like people read the line "god is dead" and stopped there, not realizing he'd written "amor fati" right before that.
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Agreed. A more egregious interpretation I used to hear years ago was people using the God is dead line as a crude argument against theism, as in, even Nietzsche doesn't believe in God. Obviously this is not as prevalent as misunderstanding existentialism is, but it's far more cringe worthy.

Full disclosure- I have a hard time not looking at the world through the lens of literal nihilism when I remove the idea of God.
 
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Fawlty said:
I'm aware of that. His efforts to deal with the problems Nietzsche described are a ridiculous hodgepodge of outdated ideas about truth "varying independently" with fact (yes I'm being cheeky), and a return to Christianity. He's one of my favorite YTers and I appreciate what he adds to the conversation, and he's done more help to my understanding of Nietzsche than anyone else. But he's the old man on the porch and some of his ideas are leading people in the wrong direction- toward the right wing's reviving brand of postmodernism.
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This is just embarrassing to read.
 
dontsnitch said:
Agreed. A more egregious interpretation I used to hear years ago was people using the God is dead line as a crude argument against theism, as in, even Nietzsche doesn't believe in God. Obviously this is not as prevalent as misunderstanding existentialism is, but it's far more cringe worthy.

Full disclosure- I have a hard time not looking at the world through the lens of literal nihilism when I remove the idea of God.
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I think that's probably where that interpretation comes from (the religious direction), but I've had completely non-religious people tell me the same thing.

I listened to a lecture series recently where the professor made the distinction between the ideological life of the Hero vs. that of the Saint, where the Hero originates in Ancient Greece and the Saint with Abraham and the religions of the book. After that he basically tracks the development of Western civilization as an ongoing attempt to balance those two ideas, and illustrates where they're incommensurable and where they conflict.

I know he draws from Joseph Campbell, but I'm not sure if the Hero/Saint distinction is his or someone else's. Either way it's one you might find compelling if you were to look into it.
 
Caveat said:
I think that's probably where that interpretation comes from (the religious direction), but I've had completely non-religious people tell me the same thing.

I listened to a lecture series recently where the professor made the distinction between the ideological life of the Hero vs. that of the Saint, where the Hero originates in Ancient Greece and the Saint with Abraham and the religions of the book. After that he basically tracks the development of Western civilization as an ongoing attempt to balance those two ideas, and illustrates where they're incommensurable and where they conflict.

I know he draws from Joseph Campbell, but I'm not sure if the Hero/Saint distinction is his or someone else's. Either way it's one you might find compelling if you were to look into it.
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Is the series online that you are able to link it?

By the by, any progress on the philosophy front?
 
Metusalemi said:
Damn!

Peterson is taking his gloves off. He is determined to take down political correctness/neo-marxism/post modernism in our society.

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Damn, I wanted to go to this but it was expensive and sold out and fuck driving into Toronto at peak traffic hours lol.

Had a few friends there who said he was electrifying.
 
Never heard of him but some posters I respect seem to think highly of him so I'll check him out.
 
Caveat said:
Sure: http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/philosophy-religion-and-the-meaning-of-life.html

Assuming you mean podcast - no progress at all, but another possible partner has moved back into my area recently so I'm going to bug her to help me out. She's a philosophy PhD but she's also hugely antisocial so it might be a struggle lol.
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Thanks for the link, will check it out.

Yeah, I meant the podcast, I was trying to be discrete. But hey, baby steps. Let me know if you make progress.
 
WiolentOne said:
Never heard of him but some posters I respect seem to think highly of him so I'll check him out.
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Even his critics think highly of him. The guy blends all sorts of disciplines to arrive at his ideas. Well worth listening to.
 
Peterson is a disingenuous cunt. He's lying to you. This ubiquitous "they" he speaks of. What "they" believe. Who?

Let me ask you...who are these post-modernists that believe what Peterson claims? It's a fucking boogeyman.
 
Bald1 said:
Even his critics think highly of him. The guy blends all sorts of disciplines to arrive at his ideas. Well worth listening to.
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He's only taken seriously on right-wing conspiracy websites.

It's like Hollywood actors and politics. Their opinions are shit, and they don't matter, unless they agree with right-wingers, then they're the golden calf. Clint Eastwood will get invited to talk to an empty chair. Jon Voight at the inauguration.

Same with professors. Fuck those marxists, unless I find one of the .05% that agrees with me. Then he's a saint!

He's a psych prof. who became famous for spewing silly crap about trans people. Nobody gave a shit about him before then. Then Joe Rogan, who never met a charlatan he didn't like, invited him on his podcast. Now what? He converts gamer gate people to Christianity? Looooll.

Take this:


What?
 
HOLA said:
Peterson is a disingenuous cunt. He's lying to you. This ubiquitous "they" he speaks of. What "they" believe. Who?

Let me ask you...who are these post-modernists that believe what Peterson claims? It's a fucking boogeyman.
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Either you never went to university or you're very elderly and went a long, long time ago. This 'social Marxism', while I don't necessarily like that title for it, is the prevailing ideology.

Students are nervous to engage in logic- or statistics-based dialogue in case the conclusions drawn benefit the perspective of a taboo race or gender. All findings/conclusions must align with a very narrow definition of 'social progress'.

HOLA said:
Take this:


What?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof
 
HOLA said:
He's only taken seriously on right-wing conspiracy websites.

It's like Hollywood actors and politics. Their opinions are shit, and they don't matter, unless they agree with right-wingers, then they're the golden calf. Clint Eastwood will get invited to talk to an empty chair. Jon Voight at the inauguration.

Same with professors. Fuck those marxists, unless I find one of the .05% that agrees with me. Then he's a saint!

He's a psych prof. who became famous for spewing silly crap about trans people. Nobody gave a shit about him before then. Then Joe Rogan, who never met a charlatan he didn't like, invited him on his podcast. Now what? He converts gamer gate people to Christianity? Looooll.

Take this:


What?
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You're batting 100%. 3 out of 3 threads I've seen you in today where you were demobstrably wrong. Like irrefutable evidence that you don't know what you're talking about. Fascinating.
 
HOLA said:
Peterson is a disingenuous cunt. He's lying to you. This ubiquitous "they" he speaks of. What "they" believe. Who?

Let me ask you...who are these post-modernists that believe what Peterson claims? It's a fucking boogeyman.
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U sound like you don't go outside, or use the Internet much and you also sound upset
 
Gregolian said:
I don't think he is.
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Rusk said:
I still cant understand, is he religious or not??? Seriously asking.
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Huh? Yeah, he is. But not in an insane but loveable way like Yoel Romero.

He just says stuff. It appeals to angry alienated white boys who have never read anything related to academic writings and are taken in by Peterson.

"Oooh, he's anti-SJW, but he doesn't just call them cucks! He uses bigly words!"

Seriously, are you guys convinced by this? Or is it, "I dunno wtf that means. That means he's smart. Plus, he doesn't like PC. Yeah, he's my guy!"

"To say "I believe in God" is equivalent, in some sense, to say "my thought is ultimately coherent, but predicated on an axiom (as my thought is also incomplete, so I must take something on faith)."

To say "I don't believe in God" is therefore to say "no axiom outside my thought is necessary" or "the necessary axiom outside my thought is not real." The consequence of this statement is that God himself unravels, then the state unravels, then the family unravels, and then the self itself unravels.

To stem this unraveling with false certainty: that is totalitarianism. To speed it along is nihilism. We experimented with totalitarianism in the twentieth century, as an alternative to the ultimate axiom of faith in the unknowable and unspeakable. Totalitarianism failed. Now we will have to experiment to nihilism. This experiment, led by the resentful, will also fail, and it is as doubtful that we can survive it as it was that we could survive totalitarianism."
 
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