The Greater Runner Up: Holloway vs Whitaker

[KID Yamamoto]

He has an interim title and bonuses. These are his only achievements/accolades in MMA. Please show me otherwise.



SoS matters when comparing comparable fighters. Rob has no achievements other than an interim title that was never defended or unified, and some bonuses. Very good fighter, good resume, exciting, and likeable - these things do not make someone "one of the greatest". He is what GSP fans wish Fitch was: the perennial #2 of a shallow division with some top 10 wins.



Fantasy match-up opinions do not make him more accomplished, nor does it make what he's done greater than what it is. Awesome guy, good fighter, good resume, not great, not one of the greatest.

His resume is just fine. Never said he was better than Silva but his resume is better than everyone Silva beat in the UFC for middleweights barring maybe Vitor (btw all his best wins were him on a shit ton of TRT I mind you)
Silva's guys haven't aged well. Rich Franklin would get washed by a lot of guys at middleweight now.

 

[drbolony]

Top 10 wins definitely matter. Hendo has won multiple tournaments and has held titles in multiple weight classes. His top 10 wins add to his accolades, for sure. 100%.

Whittaker is good. One of the best of modern times, but not one of the greatest. He's miles ahead of Fitch, I wasn't saying otherwise, I'm saying he's what GSP fans try to make people believe Fitch was.

We're never going to agree I guess. You put more weight into accolades, I put it into fighting, skills, and quality wins. Imo, prime for prime, Whittaker is a better fighter than Hendo ever was.

His resume is just fine. Never said he was better than Silva but his resume is better than everyone Silva beat in the UFC for middleweights barring maybe Vitor (btw all his best wins were him on a shit ton of TRT I mind you)
Silva's guys haven't aged well. Rich Franklin would get washed by a lot of guys at middleweight now.

Ole timers hate it when you say the truth about Rich Franklin too.

TBF to the old heads, it only makes sense that fighters got better, this is a young sport. That said, never forget how lost Rich was in the thai plum, terrified, like he'd never been there. That simply wouldn't happen to a championship level MW today.

 

[drphil]

Doesn't make him one of the greatest, brohemus. No defenses, no records, no accolades, no achievements, etc.

He hasn't even won an actual title fight, just an interim title fight.

So beating fighters of multiple generations in the division "counts for nothing".
Tremendous take there mate.

 

[r-harper-1]

Max on another level imo

 

[SeattleFightFan]

It was a jab feint, not a fake touch. He’s addressed this. The guy has beaten Olympian’s in wrestling, he doesn’t need to fake anything about the guy with the worst wrestling in the UFC lmao

 

[Liverkick-king56]

In UFC, it's DC and it's not even remotely close. The only reason he had a belt, let alone two, was entirely because of Jones was such a fuck up. If it wasn't for Jones, I highly doubt if DC would have gotten such an undeserved title shot either. He likely would have been beltless guy in either division, who never was best in any weight classes, as he still is, even after winning the title in each weight class.

Holloway always will be able to say he beat Aldo twice, arguably the FW Goat of all time, and Rob did lose to Izzy twice, but the rematch was pretty close, and he did win his title against a monster that was Romero, well interim, but promoted after.

You... You mean the guy who got caught for steroids in their latest fight?
Whatever you want to credit Jones' for being he doesn't hold a real victory over DC in DC's prime he got caught cheating... There's really nothing to argue that it's a fair win when Jones' himself didn't believe he could do it without breaking rules.

Look at the difference in Sonnen/Silva 1 and 2... PEDs make a big difference.

 

[Koro_11]

Does it matter? Lol. They are both great. Holloway is one of the greatest FWs of all time and Whittaker is one of the greatest MWs of all time.

Whitaker and Holloway are not really comparable, Holloway has had many title defences and beat the previous GOAT twice.

Whitaker has like one title defense, and that was a fight where he was gifted the decision against Romero.

 

[r-harper-1]

DC fought Jones and a fat WW at LHW, lost to Alex and couldnt finish a 50yo Anderson Silva on 2 days notice.

It's Max and Fitch.

There’s no possible way you can score Alex over Dc without bias

 

[r-harper-1]

You... You mean the guy who got caught for steroids in their latest fight?
Whatever you want to credit Jones' for being he doesn't hold a real victory over DC in DC's prime he got caught cheating... There's really nothing to argue that it's a fair win when Jones' himself didn't believe he could do it without breaking rules.

Look at the difference in Sonnen/Silva 1 and 2... PEDs make a big difference.

Lmao at you thinking Chael was clean for the rematch…..LMFAO

 

[Liverkick-king56]

Lmao at you thinking Chael was clean for the rematch…..LMFAO

He wasn't on the same amount of juice, he's even admitted that his levels were disgusting for that first fight. He may have been on sauce on his return but Chael was clearly smaller and was struggling with Bisping who was a solid antiwrestler but still prone to wrestling, clearly not the same force that dominated Silva.

 

[RageQuitLord]

In UFC, it's DC and it's not even remotely close. The only reason he had a belt, let alone two, was entirely because of Jones was such a fuck up. If it wasn't for Jones, I highly doubt if DC would have gotten such an undeserved title shot either. He likely would have been beltless guy in either division, who never was best in any weight classes, as he still is, even after winning the title in each weight class.

Holloway always will be able to say he beat Aldo twice, arguably the FW Goat of all time, and Rob did lose to Izzy twice, but the rematch was pretty close, and he did win his title against a monster that was Romero, well interim, but promoted after.

I don't think you understand the question.

 

[Exarch01]

He has an interim title and bonuses. These are his only achievements/accolades in MMA. Please show me otherwise.



SoS matters when comparing comparable fighters. Rob has no achievements other than an interim title that was never defended or unified, and some bonuses. Very good fighter, good resume, exciting, and likeable - these things do not make someone "one of the greatest". He is what GSP fans wish Fitch was: the perennial #2 of a shallow division with some top 10 wins.



Fantasy match-up opinions do not make him more accomplished, nor does it make what he's done greater than what it is. Awesome guy, good fighter, good resume, not great, not one of the greatest.

I know what part of Wikipedia you're looking at. If you scroll up or down, they'll be more information about what Whittaker has done in MMA.

 

[Exarch01]

No this isn’t the forum of whether you agree with me personally or not and I like your nerve. This is a forum where comparing the legacies of two legends in mma is normal. Perhaps you should fall back. You’re losing touch with the reality of the situation and getting testy. Fuck if you agree with me.

This is shit thread, and I'm honestly not sure if you're trolling or just stupid. Either way, get blocked.

 

[Exarch01]

Yes...u are correct...

T.S being disingenuous listing whittaker and Holloway in this group

TS is playing MMA intellectual when he really has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. At this point he should try to play it off as a troll job than act like he's followed the sport for more than five minutes.

 

[BigDramaShow26]

I love Whittaker and I think he's arguably the better overall fighter than Max, but the answer has to be Holloway. I mean he has for the most part easily defeated every other challenger. Yair and Allen won some rounds, but those fights were pretty clear to me.

The list of contenders Holloway has beaten is very impressive. Whittaker did struggle with Till and he should have at the very least a draw with Romero. He is lucky that 10-8s weren't used as much 5 years ago.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Big Nog - Fedor. The GOATs.

 

[LouDee16]

....how??

WWWHHHHHAAAAATTTTT???? ummmm 13-2 maybe

 

[r-harper-1]

He wasn't on the same amount of juice, he's even admitted that his levels were disgusting for that first fight. He may have been on sauce on his return but Chael was clearly smaller and was struggling with Bisping who was a solid antiwrestler but still prone to wrestling, clearly not the same force that dominated Silva.

Chael had a good first round

 

[Pequeño Corey]

He's got a few nice streaks, a few nice names, and is very talented, but when you talked about greatness, he hasn't really accomplished much other than getting an interim title. Was promoted to champ after GSP vacated, never unified, and never defended. He has literally achieved nothing in the sport other than post fight bonuses.

I like Rob. Awesome fighter, but a lot of you use greatest, goat, etc way too loosely. Greatness isn't defined or established by being good, exciting, or likeable.

Give the man one defense. It ain’t his fault Yoel missed weight. I count Silva’s defense against Lutter, as well.

 

[vivi]

Love Whittaker. But Holloway defended more, beat FW goat Aldo, twice, and lost only to Volkanovski who is so far a better P4P great than Izzy is imo. So Holloway, and it’s not even close.