The grappling in the UFC is at an all-time LOW

[NoSmilez]

The skill gap is closer nowadays. The skill gap was rather wide back then

 

[GOATtalks]

They're very good talent. Now think about all the fighters they ignored, numbnuts. A picture is worth a thousand words:

Speaking of "morons." Has anything this stupid ever been said on these forums?



You are an absolute ass clown.

Like who? Tell me where are those great talents they ignored!

Yes, Cyril Gane had one of the best, if not the best 10 fight win streak to start his career. It remains true today. And the fact that he lost to Ngannou and Jones doesn’t mean he isn’t a great fighter.

 

[pankrat]

Just in shit divisions like lhw and hw, guys like gane and pereira wouldn’t have sniffed the top ten years ago. On the contrary 125-155 is the best it’s ever been by far in terms of all around skill

Did you see Cory vs Font yesterday? :/

 

[Taric]

Are they though? I mean MW has Du Plesis, Khamzat, Muniz, Vieira, Ikram Aliskerov, Paul Craig and Bo Nickal. All elite level grapplers

Calling Du Plesis and Paul Craig elite level grapplers is a serious reach. Craig's greatest grappling accomplishment is that he's one of the few BJJ black belts in all of Scotland, which he earned 2 years ago at the age of 33 in a MMA bout. Congrats.

15 years ago MW used to have literal top 10 grapplers in the entire world. Jacare, Maia, Galvao, etc. Actual world class grapplers fighting in MMA in their late 20s/late 30s.

Exactly 10 years ago the top 10 MW rankings were: Weidman, Anderson, Belfort, Okami, Chael, Bisping, Munoz, Rockhold, Jacare, and Tim Kennedy... who is the worst grappler on the list? Bisping? He's not even a bad grappler, just not elite.

Compare that list to today: Israel, Du Plessis, Whittaker, Cannonier, Vettori, Strickland, Costa, Brunson, Dolidze, and Hermansson... there's a lot of sub-par grapplers on that list compared to the rankings of 10 years ago. That's just a statement of fact.

 

[RonDante]

last night's main event was kickboxing?

lol wtf

Considering dana white walked out cause there wasn’t enough striking…

 

[GOATtalks]

Calling Du Plesis and Paul Craig elite level grapplers is a serious reach. Craig's greatest grappling accomplishment is that he's one of the few BJJ black belts in all of Scotland, which he earned 2 years ago in a MMA bout. Congrats.

15 years ago MW used to have literal top 10 grapplers in the entire world. Jacare, Maia, Galvao, etc. Actual world class grapplers.

Exactly 10 years ago the top 10 MW rankings were: Weidman, Anderson, Belfort, Okami, Chael, Bisping, Munoz, Rockhold, Jacare, and Tim Kennedy... who is the worst grappler on the list? Bisping? He's not even a bad grappler, just not elite.

Compare that list to today: Israel, Du Plessis, Whittaker, Cannonier, Vettori, Strickland, Costa, Brunson, Dolidze, and Hermansson... there's a lot of sub-par grapplers on that list compared to the rankings of 10 years ago. That's just a statement of fact.

Lol.

Look at what Du Plesis did to Whittaker and then look at what Whittaker did to Jacare. Du Plesis is elite like him or not.

And Craig has 13 submission wins out of his 17 win total. Dude submitted Ankalaev ffs. He can submit anyone of his back.

In today’s top10 Israel is by far the worst grappler and he’s the champ and beat almost everyone in top10, some of them twice. In today’s MMA, BJJ is the least effective base. Great striking with good TDD defence is probably the best combo a fighter can have. Someone like Vieira would’ve been a contender for sure ten years ago, yet he can’t crack the top15 today.

 

[Hdfi]

It's because grapplers are making more money outside of MMA these days and also because there is more competition for talented grapplers between MMA organizations (ONE, Bellator, etc.).

 

[coffecuptv]

Tbh I'm fine with it, I really prefer stand up Karate Kickboxing with Judo throws over submission game.

 

[Taric]

Look at what Du Plesis did to Whittaker and then look at what Whittaker did to Jacare. Du Plesis is elite like him or not.

What does a fight that lasted 7 minute, with 1 minute of it being on the ground with both Whittaker and Du Plessis scoring a TD each, have to do with Du Plessis' grappling prowess? Or a 26 year old Whittaker defeating a 38 year old Jacare purely on the feet?

What does any of this have to do with grappling ability? What are you even talking about? Jacare has like a dozen BJJ/no-gi championships you numbskull. He's literally only lost to the best ever (Roger Gracie, Saulo Ribeiro, Xande Ribeiro, and Braulio Estima) in pure grappling. Get a fucking clue.

In today’s top10 Israel is by far the worst grappler and he’s the champ and beat almost everyone in top10, some of them twice. In today’s MMA, BJJ is the least effective base. Great striking with good TDD defence is probably the best combo a fighter can have. Someone like Vieira would’ve been a contender for sure ten years ago, yet he can’t crack the top15 today.

... so in the end you agree with my statement; that grappling ability has in fact gone down at MW, LHW, and HW in MMA. Glad to hear it.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Like who? Tell me where are those great talents they ignored!

Yes, Cyril Gane had one of the best, if not the best 10 fight win streak to start his career. It remains true today. And the fact that he lost to Ngannou and Jones doesn’t mean he isn’t a great fighter.

I know pictures are hard. You'll get there. Do you know who that is? Do you know anyone who isn't in the UFC right now?

"Nothing more impressive has ever been achieved."
"Ciryl Gane is the GOAT."
"No one will ever beat Gane."



CanTalks bless.

 

[GOATtalks]

What does a fight that lasted 7 minute, with 1 minute of it being on the ground with both Whittaker and Du Plessis scoring a TD each, have to do with Du Plessis' grappling prowess? Or a 26 year old Whittaker defeating a 38 year old Jacare purely on the feet?

What does any of this have to do with grappling ability? What are you even talking about? Jacare has like a dozen BJJ/no-gi championships you numbskull. He's literally only lost to the best ever (Roger Gracie, Saulo Ribeiro, Xande Ribeiro, and Braulio Estima). Get a fucking clue.

... so in the end you agree with my statement, that grappling ability has in fact gone down at MW, LHW, and HW in MMA. Glad to hear it.

Whittaker stuffed 2 of Jacare’s TD’s and got up pretty easily after one time that Jacare got him down. Jacare was a great BJJ practitioner, but his wrestling didn’t allow him showcase it and his striking was good but not really great.



Now compare Du Plesis and Jacare UFC stats. You’ll see that Du Plesis has slightly better offensive wrestling and their submission average is almost even. Whittaker was always known as anti grappler and Du Plesis took him down with ease. He’s really good.

Also, why do you have a need to lie?



Jacare was 37, not 38 when he fought Whittaker and was actually the favourite to win. His only loss in 12 fights was Romero and Jacare was considered one of the best MW’s in the world at that time. And we have plenty of elite fighters at that age now. Cannonier is 39 and even Izzy is 34.

No, I didn’t prove your point, I did the opposite. On average TDD and submission defence has improved, therefore BJJ guys are becoming less effective and can’t become contenders anymore.

 

[GOATtalks]

I know pictures are hard. You'll get there. Do you know who that is? Do you know anyone who isn't in the UFC right now?

"Nothing more impressive has ever been achieved."
"Ciryl Gane is the GOAT."
"No one will ever beat Gane."



CanTalks bless.

Lol, you’re such a retard. Now you’re laughing at things I’ve never said.

Schizophrenia is a horrible disease, get help please!

 

[Dreyga_King of Sherbums]

A decade or so ago, the top grapplers were insanely accomplished amateur wrestlers, BJJ artists, or Judo practitioners.

Now the top grappler at LHW is a Polish striker with 1.5 rounds of cardio.

Top grapplers in LHW is Magomed Ankaleev

 

[Taric]

Also, why do you have a need to lie?

Jacare was 37, not 38 when he fought Whittaker

This is the level of discourse you provide. You call me a liar because I said a guy was 8 months younger than I thought he was off the top of my head. Jesus Christ lol

And then on top of that you are actually trying to argue that Dricus du Plessis is a superior grappler to Jacare fucking Souza. Fucking lol

 

[Sweater of AV]

Lol, you’re such a retard. Now you’re laughing at things I’ve never said.

Schizophrenia is a horrible disease, get help please!

Sure thing SchizoTalks.

Ngannou vs Gane is the highest level of HW MMA ever

I don't think you fully understand how stupid you are. How many ships have you jumped off now?

Conor isn't the GOAT anymore?

 

[Sweater of AV]

This is the level of discourse you provide. You call me a liar because I said a guy was 8 months younger than I thought he was off the top of my head. Jesus Christ lol

And then on top of that you are actually trying to argue that Dricus du Plessis is a superior grappler to Jacare fucking Souza. Fucking lol

This is what he does. Every time someone wins they become the new GOAT. Dude's greatest fighter list is updated every week and then he pretends like he was never wrong. It's hilarious.

 

[Prologue]

UFC is at an all time low in the UFC

 

[Luckyme]

Ankalaev is a Sambo world champion

You're probably thinking of Aliskerov.

Ankalaev is a kickboxer with a Greco background.

 

[Luckyme]

A decade or so ago, the top grapplers were insanely accomplished amateur wrestlers, BJJ artists, or Judo practitioners.

Now the top grappler at LHW is a Polish striker with 1.5 rounds of cardio.

As others have already pointed out, grappling talent is at an all time high in 170 and below.

I would argue that with a few notable exceptions like Fedor and Werdum, grappling was never that great in MW, LHW, and HW back in the day. Coleman, Chael, Tito, Rampage, etc. were pretty one dimensional compared to the likes of Aspinall, Almeida, Whittaker, and Jon Jones.

 

[AMAZINGUFC]

A decade or so ago, the top grapplers were insanely accomplished amateur wrestlers, BJJ artists, or Judo practitioners.

Now the top grappler at LHW is a Polish striker with 1.5 rounds of cardio.