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the darce, the brabo choke, whatever you want to call it..

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by hamoom, Oct 8, 2005.

  1. hamoom

    hamoom Purple Belt

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    Do you guys think this is a good choke for someone with short arms? I can apply this choke sometimes but other times my biceps and forearms burn from trying to squeeze someone into submission with it. I'm finding it a tough choke to get tight, especially if someone has some girth? Is there anything I might be doing wrong? I try to push the back of my opponents head with my tricep right before I lock it up... I really like the constant availability of this choke though, any tips?
     
  2. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

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    This might be helpful http://www.grapplearts.com/Brabo-No-Gi-Choke.htm

    Having long arms is definitely a benefit for this choke. You shoudl still be able to apply it, you'll just to work harder to get leverage. Like an arm triangle it can take a while to go on. It probably better to put it on at 80% for 10-15 secs and gradually increasing the pressure, rather than squeezing the hell out of it for 5 secs and giving up. Make sure the top arm isn't underhooking you, the elbow joint should be at about 45
     
  3. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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  4. guardpasser

    guardpasser Tudo Bem Bjj

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    lotys of ways to finish it, short arms require you to finish it a little different. the vids above and pics should help a little.
    ask someone how to apply it to a big guy, that would be the same way you would need to do it, it would simulate "short arms" by having a big guy getting submitted, i was used for an example at a couple schools on that matter
     
  5. spiderguardman

    spiderguardman Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    i love it and hate it at the same time, i love it because it's so simple to get and hate it cause it's so easy to get caught in =(
     
  6. hamoom

    hamoom Purple Belt

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    that video was helpful. i didnt know the detail about pulling your elbow into your ribs when you have the choke locked up
     
  7. bafflemeant

    bafflemeant Green Belt

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    Stupid question, maybe. --Are the darce and brabo in fact the same choke?
     
  8. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    Pretty much. The names get mixed up. The darce was a setup that Joe D'arce would do where he gable gripped his hands first then went to the arm triangle. It used to be called the "Shaolin" too, since Vitor Shaolin Ribeiro did it a lot. I'm writing all of this up for a my site, since I've been following all the different setups and names this choke has gotten.
     
  9. franz_grinder

    franz_grinder Huggernaut

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    \

    They are alot alike (I'm speaking from a No-gi standpoint). It's a difference in grips.

    The linke above (http://www.grapplearts.com/Brabo-No-Gi-Choke.htm) is your basic Brabo, except when I do it I fall back and push my inside knee towards my opponents armpit and if needed I wrap my outside leg around him like in the vid on this page:

    http://www.aesopian.com/132/jeffs-no-gi-chokes/

    It's in the first vid of the page.

    Some people refer to this choke as a brabo as well (i like to use the term reverse brabo):

    http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=2471


    Here's a basic darce choke:

    http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=2442

    Here's a Darce from turtle:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6445016315920644897
     
  10. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    I'd call that last video a drop guillotine that starts with the same grip as the darce choke.

    Grappling terminology is retarded.
     
  11. franz_grinder

    franz_grinder Huggernaut

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    Yah, I guess you could call it a drop guillotine with darce grip. I find myself just catagorizing chokes by position and grip. So I suppose that's why I called it a darce variation where as I probably should stated it is closer to a drop guillotine. I wish I could just standardize all these basardized names together within my head.

    You can see how in my post someone could get very confused by no-gi terms especially. There are many people that call that north south arm triangle a brabo whereas I like to call it a reverse brabo or north-south brabo.
     
  12. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    The grip for the arm triangle from north-south is pretty much the same as the brabo. It's just the finishing position that's unlike how most people finish it from the side or in half guard.
     
  13. franz_grinder

    franz_grinder Huggernaut

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    This is why Eddie Bravo gains so much reverence. IMO he's a skilled no-gi practitioner but in no way a grappling god.

    What he does well is naming everything he practices with a very distinguished name allowing teaching and self-teaching to become alot more straight-forward. Some of the names are retarded but it still works.

    I think, in some occasions, the transference of bjj, catch, sambo and judo's techniques and names for these techniques are the causes of such a gentrification of terminology.
     
  14. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    Is this a blood choke, windpipe crush, or just a crank-the-hell-out-of-his-neck move ?
    It seems with this choke everybody has a different way of applying it and a different result.
     
  15. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    I've had it act as all of those, depending on how and where I finish it.
     
  16. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    i like to sit back down to my guard, making it an arm-in guillotine with an arm triangle grip. that usually gets the tap very fast.
     
  17. Czyivn

    Czyivn Yellow Belt

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    Ditto on the "using guard to finish it" method. I saw it in Baret Yoshida's book, and immediately started using it. When I get the brabo, and walk my legs towards them like I'm trying to get guard, they always tap, sometimes even before I can touch them with my legs. The key pressure to finishing the choke, as with the guillotine, is to fold their head in towards their body. In fact, the way I finish the brabo, it almost looks like a grip variation of the guillotine. Try working on that to get the finish. Instead of sprawling and squeezing with your arms, use your non-choking arm bicep to fold their head in, lift the elbow of the choking arm up, and walk your legs towards them to get guard.
     
  18. bafflemeant

    bafflemeant Green Belt

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    Saw the Brabo demonstrated in 17 minutes of no-gi chokes by Jeff Rockwell.

    Am I right the main difference between brabo and darce is the that in the Brabo, you grab your own bicep whereas in the darce you use a gable grip?

    I'd like to know this as my instructor often has us drill Darce escapes, but I never knew what the Darce actually was.
     

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