The Case for Big Nog as the all time #2 HW and top 10 P4P

[ExitLUPin]

Nog is closer to Fedor than any other HW is to him. Yes hes 2nd GOAT and top 10 P4P ever without question.

Nog was 31-4-1-1 when he won the UFC title as a zombie with more injuries than an NFL vet and surgeries than a KPop star while being partially blind in an eye to boot. He was considered HW GOAT and P4P #1 before the first Fedor fight and was still consistently in the top 5-10 P4P rankings for at least another solid 5 years. His resume is arguably the best in HW history.

If Fedor didnt exist hed only have 2 losses in his prime to Barnett in the GOAT HW fight in a split that he avenged decisively.

Then avenging a Hendo robbery decisively as well. He would have been 31-2-1 if Fedor didn't exist and most likely a couple more wins in that span, only fighter who could've beaten him then was peak Mirko and he already finished him once

 

[orca]

Josh Barnett, Mirko Cro Cop, Tim Sylvia, Fabricio Werdum, Ricco Rodriguez, Mark Coleman, Sergei Kharitinov, Semmy Schilt Heath Herring 2x, Brendan Schaub, Randy Couture, Bob Sapp, Valentijn Overeem, Gary Goodridge

good wins are werdum and maybe mirko
alot of them where green when he fought them.
i dont even know half of these you posted
lmao
prime nog wont survive the guys stipe fought
and yes they where older but was at the peak of their fighting prime

 

[gspieler]

Fedor
Nog
Werdum
Stipe
Cain/JDS/Reem/Cro Cop

I don't really see any other argument for #2 HW all-time, for anyone not named Werdum or Stipe.

 

[Nobru]

young fans will look at wikipedia and check his record. they will see losses and say Khabib is the best fighter cause he retired undefeated
dont even waste your time, TS.

 

[SG123]

Nog is the clear no.2 HW of all time, the ghost of Nogueira was able to claim the title in the UFC. He was incredible in his prime, skillwise as well as heart and durability

 

[OneOfOne]

good wins are werdum and maybe mirko
alot of them where green when he fought them.
i dont even know half of these you posted
lmao
prime nog wont survive the guys stipe fought
and yes they where older but was at the peak of their fighting prime

Clearly

 

[kellier]

I don't think its a clear cut. Actually hard to separate Nog and Stipe for #2.

Stipe has a fantastic resume, but he beat at a lot of big name fighters on their downslope (JDS, Nelson, Hunt, DC III)

Nog didn't have a significant period as #1 HW and he wasn't really dominant in a lot of his wins (he took a lot of damage which reduced his prime).

Nog best wins: Coleman (previous Pride openweight champ), Prime Barnett, Cro Cop (Pride version) and Tim Sylvia (1 yr after his 2nd title reign)

Stipe best wins: Werdum (reigning champ), Econoreem, Ngannou, & DC II (reigning champ)

Personally I'd favour Stipe's big wins (DC > Coleman, Werdum > Barnett, Reem > Sylvia, Ngannou > Cro Cop)

 

[JKS]

I am a massive Big Nog fan, but I do have Stipe over him as the #2 HW all time. I got Nog at #3.

 

[DayV]

good wins are werdum and maybe mirko
alot of them where green when he fought them.
i dont even know half of these you posted
lmao
prime nog wont survive the guys stipe fought
and yes they where older but was at the peak of their fighting prime

I don't think its a clear cut. Actually hard to separate Nog and Stipe for #2.

Stipe has a fantastic resume, but he beat at a lot of big name fighters on their downslope (JDS, Nelson, Hunt, DC III)

Nog didn't have a significant period as #1 HW and he wasn't really dominant in a lot of his wins (he took a lot of damage which reduced his prime).

Nog best wins: Coleman (previous Pride openweight champ), Prime Barnett, Cro Cop (Pride version) and Tim Sylvia (1 yr after his 2nd title reign)

Stipe best wins: Werdum (reigning champ), Econoreem, Ngannou, & DC II (reigning champ)

Personally I'd favour Stipe's big wins (DC > Coleman, Werdum > Barnett, Reem > Sylvia, Ngannou > Cro Cop)

Nogueira has beaten significantly greater number of good & dangerous fighters overall.
Nogueira has more than 20 good wins, while Stipe has only 10-11, so it is not fair to compare just few of the best wins, and disregard the rest. It is where the difference truly goes in Nogueira's favor.

Sipe's wins are naturally against fighters of newer generations, since he is himself younger, Minotauro's wins are mostly against older generation of fighters, since he is himself from older generation.
It is not that important how a fighter of older generation would theoretically do against fighter of new generation. New generations are standing on shoulders of older generation, and they heve all the knowledge tested and available, what to do, how much, what not to do, trainging methods and everything; while older generation had to experiment and figure out everything by themselves.

If opponents of Stipe are better and more difficult than Nogueira's, than it is also easier for Stipe to beat them because he has all of the knowledge available to him. It is not that important if peak Cormier is potentially better than peak Coleman, they are worth the same, just in different time era, when we compaire wins of Stipe & Minotauro.

 

[suffersystem]

Funny this thread showed up, just this morning is a FB memory status about Big Nog getting Ko'd by Roy Nelson.

 

[Hazuki Ryo]

Lol fun troll thread.

Casual

 

[Shaddows]

We all know a lot of the older fighters get underrated and downgraded as time goes on by new fans who never had the chance to see them fight. Although this happens to many great fighters I think the most egregious example of this is Antonio Nogueria. The newer fans just have no clue how dominant this guy was and how stacked his resume is. Although he often gets left off of the greatest HWs list nowadays I believe he is still the #2 greatest HW of all time and top 10 p4p. Here is the case for Big Nog.

Big Nog has the most top 10 wins in HW division history

He has 15 top 10 Wins in the HW division. That's the most out of any HW in history and the tied with Jon Jones for 4th overall. The only fighters that have more top 10 wins than Nogueria are Dan Henderson(18), Anderson Silva(17), and Georges St. Pierre(17). Other than Fedor(14) no other HW even comes close to 15 top 10 wins.

Most of his wins were against opponents in their prime

What makes Nog's resume so impressive is that most of the guys he beat were either at their peaks or in their primes. Big Nog beat PRIME versions of Mirko Cop Cop, Josh Barnett, Tim Sylvia, Fabricio Werdum, Ricco Rodriguez, Dan Henderson, Sergei Kharitonov, Sammy Schilt, and Heath Herring 2x. He beat Mark Coleman when he was ranked #1 and would later on beat an older but still viable, TRT fueled Randy Couture. That's a better resume than Stipe, JDS, Cain, and even Fedor himself.

Nog had the 2nd most dominant run in HW history

Between 2001 - 2008 Nog put together a 25-3 run losing only to Fedor and Josh Barnett. During this run he beat 14 top 10 HWs, 3 top 10 LHWs, and 3 top 20 HWs. He was ranked at #1 or #2 for essentially 7 straight years. The only time he fell out of the top 2 was when he lost to Barnett in 2006. However, he would avenge that loss and regain the #2 ranking just 3 months later.

He is the only fighter to win belts in both Pride and the UFC

No other fighter of any weight class was able to win the title in both Pride and the UFC.

-------

The only thing keeping Nog out of the GOAT discussion is his 2 losses to Fedor and lack of titles. Had Fedor never existed Nog would have had several title defenses in Pride and be universally considered the HW GOAT. Most people have Jones, Anderson, GSP, Fedor, Aldo, and Mighty Mouse as their top 6 all time. Then I think you could throw Dominick Cruz and Matt Hughes after that group. But after that you have to consider Big Nog at the #9 or #10 spot all time when you consider his resume and his dominant run.

With all that said I think it's time we give proper due to one of the most accomplished and one of the best fighters we've ever seen, the GREAT Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.

Very nicely put.
I 100% agree with your post!

 

[Sweater of AV]

Nog’s career was incredible and yes the only person that can be argued as ahead of him is Fedor. Additionally, he has a resume of fantastic fights everyone should watch that no HW comes close to matching.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I don't think its a clear cut. Actually hard to separate Nog and Stipe for #2.

Stipe has a fantastic resume, but he beat at a lot of big name fighters on their downslope (JDS, Nelson, Hunt, DC III)

Nog didn't have a significant period as #1 HW and he wasn't really dominant in a lot of his wins (he took a lot of damage which reduced his prime).

Nog best wins: Coleman (previous Pride openweight champ), Prime Barnett, Cro Cop (Pride version) and Tim Sylvia (1 yr after his 2nd title reign)

Stipe best wins: Werdum (reigning champ), Econoreem, Ngannou, & DC II (reigning champ)

Personally I'd favour Stipe's big wins (DC > Coleman, Werdum > Barnett, Reem > Sylvia, Ngannou > Cro Cop)

Good post. Really tough to say. I also think that you can’t definitively decide who was better based purely on resume. Just because Stipe didn’t fight prime X and Nog didn’t fight prime Y doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t have beaten the prime versions of those guys. Based on the eye test I like Nog’s chances prime vs prime. Really fast and dangerous everywhere.

 

[Lee_]

i dont even know half of these you posted

nooby casual

 

[pankrat]

good wins are werdum and maybe mirko
alot of them where green when he fought them.
i dont even know half of these you posted
lmao
prime nog wont survive the guys stipe fought
and yes they where older but was at the peak of their fighting prime

We already knew, palurdo

 

[po_thead]

Largerly agree, it's no debate who the greatest HW is and who the greatest UFC HW is, think for the #2 spot it's pretty close between Stipe and Nog. Stipe may have achieved more but Nog has a more extensive career.

Werdum has to be above Stipe

 

[mkt]

. He beat Mark Coleman when he was ranked #1 and would later on beat an older but still viable, TRT fueled Randy Couture. That's a better resume than Stipe, JDS, Cain, and even Fedor himself.

Both Coleman (who was figured out back in 1997 by Mo Smith and left the UFC on a 3-fight losing streak in 2000) and Couture were well into their 40s by the time Big Nog fought them. And many here say Lesnar's finish over Couture (against a younger Randy than Nog fought) is discredited because Couture was a true LHW who was past his prime. This is largely based on bias. One fighter's "great win" is another fighter's "meaningless victory against a smaller, past-prime opponent."

 

[mkt]

Josh Barnett, Mirko Cro Cop, Tim Sylvia, Fabricio Werdum, Ricco Rodriguez, Mark Coleman, Sergei Kharitinov, Semmy Schilt Heath Herring 2x, Brendan Schaub, Randy Couture, Bob Sapp, Valentijn Overeem, Gary Goodridge

Goodridge? Please. Like Don Frye, Tank, Ken Shamrock, etc., he was a first generation NHB fighter who peaked around 1996. I love that generation of fighters but they were too old/washed and unevolved to be taken seriously by the mid-2000s.

 

[mkt]

Of course he is. Ignore these noobs who talk about Zombie Nog and the Mir fights

Mir had been KO'd/brutalized more than Nog when they fought, and also gone through a horrific motorcycle accident. And neither fighter was old by HW standards in either fight. To say Nog was a "zombie" but act like Mir was in his fresh prime is beyond inane.