The American Gun Rights Thread Vol. 3

[Greoric]

You said it was "just human nature", I disagreed. As do the reports on the intensity gap over the years.
It's well documented, and the results speak for themselves. In funding. In bills passed. In campaigns run.
You just haven't got anything to come back at that with, except the list of state legislature, and honestly I just don't care enough about your gun laws or gun grabber paranoia to keep arguing about it.

From those statistics, it would seem like Republicans just don't give a shit in general (about any issues), and yet that's clearly not the case.

Weird how you assign the term paranoia to something that's overtly pushed.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

You said it was "just human nature", I disagreed. As do the reports on the intensity gap over the years.
It's well documented, and the results speak for themselves. In funding. In bills passed. In campaigns run.
You just haven't got anything to come back at that with, except the list of state legislature, and honestly I just don't care enough about your gun laws or gun grabber paranoia to keep arguing about it.

From those statistics, it would seem like Republicans just don't give a shit in general (about any issues), and yet that's clearly not the case.

Reports? All you supplied that I recall was some stuff showing that gun rights supporters had to go to much greater lengths/expense than those on the other side. You couldn't even explain how those expenses were the defining metric and then poo-poo'd it when I showed you how expenditures were rising on the gun control side (now that momentum as swung). It's also like you fail to grasp that it's on the state level where most gun legislation takes place and are under the incorrect impression that if it's not federal it doesn't count.

You just outed yourself as being ridiculous on this topic by saying "gun grabber paranoia" when you've been given enough recent examples of various legislative efforts to know that democrats are constantly trying to chip away at the 2nd.

But since you don't care that's cool. I was just making conversation. After all, as a foreigner your opinion on the subject is obviously irrelevant.

 

[Ruprecht]

Weird how you assign the term paranoia to something that's overtly pushed.

The paranoia isn't the idea that there's a gun grabber agenda, it's what's specifically said about it. The way the grass roots activism is narrated and promoted.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Weird how you assign the term paranoia to something that's overtly pushed.

But all those examples of proposed legislation, laws passed, and current Presidential candidates stumping about it don't count somehow.

 

[Greoric]

The paranoia isn't the idea that there's a gun grabber agenda, it's what's specifically said about it. The way the grass roots activism is narrated and promoted.

You mean how there's concern over whether the right to own weapons will be incrementally stripped away to functionally no right at all? That's hardly unfounded.

 

[Ruprecht]

Reports? All you supplied that I recall was some stuff showing that gun rights supporters had to go to much greater lengths/expense than those on the other side. You couldn't even explain how those expenses were the defining metric and then poo-poo'd it when I showed you how expenditures were rising on the gun control side (now that momentum as swung). It's also like you fail to grasp that it's on the state level where most gun legislation takes place and are under the incorrect impression that if it's not federal it doesn't count.

You just outed yourself as being ridiculous on this topic by saying "gun grabber paranoia" when you've been given enough recent examples of various legislative efforts to know that democrats are constantly trying to chip away at the 2nd.

But since you don't care that's cool. I was just making conversation. After all, as a foreigner your opinion on the subject is obviously irrelevant.

All the orange text in my posts are links. We were talking about Federal politics, the federal election and the NRA's election campaign. Of course there's regional differences in politics and legislation. How can a bill for universal background checks fail when the issue repeatedly polled above 80% support? Intensity.
The entire US political system rewards intensity over simple majority.

 

[Ruprecht]

You mean how there's concern over whether the right to own weapons will be incrementally stripped away to functionally no right at all? That's hardly unfounded.

No, I mean they pander to paranoia at every level.

 

[Greoric]

No, I mean they pander to paranoia at every level.

Well considering the state of affairs in the US, its not a requisite first step.

 

[Greoric]

All the orange text in my posts are links. We were talking about Federal politics, the federal election and the NRA's election campaign. Of course there's regional differences in politics and legislation. How can a bill for universal background checks fail when the issue repeatedly polled above 80% support? Intensity.
The entire US political system rewards intensity over simple majority.

Because the nuance is in the wording. People support background checks and that would likely show up in a poll when asked about them. But a "universal" background check is synonymous with registration, which most people are likely not in favor of.

 

[Ruprecht]

Because the nuance is in the wording. People support background checks and that would likely show up in a poll when asked about them. But a "universal" background check is synonymous with registration, which most people are likely not in favor of.

In one of the studies done afterwards, 41 percent of those polled thought you already had universal background checks. 77% of the same poll said they wanted universal background checks specifically (an earlier Gallup poll with the same question got 86% in favour), but only 53% said they wanted stricter gun laws.
That suggests a different dynamic...

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

All the orange text in my posts are links. We were talking about Federal politics, the federal election and the NRA's election campaign. Of course there's regional differences in politics and legislation. How can a bill for universal background checks fail when the issue repeatedly polled above 80% support? Intensity.
The entire US political system rewards intensity over simple majority.

lol. I thought the orange was some randomly generated links to word definitions or something.

Since we've established you don't care and you don't count let's just leave it at this. Yes, people who enjoy target shooting, hunting, and self-defense are likely to become upset over the continued efforts on the state and federal level to enact more restrictive legislation. No, that doesn't mean the other side is ambivalent on the subject or that groups like GOA are born out of paranoia.

See you another thread brother.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

No, I mean they pander to paranoia at every level.

lol this never gets old:
http://boingboing.net/images/NR-F8_PERILFINAL.pdf

Even the pig looks angry lol

 

[Ruprecht]

lol this never gets old:
http://boingboing.net/images/NR-F8_PERILFINAL.pdf
Even the pig looks angry lol

Hah! Don't think I'd seen that one before. Seems pretty in line with what I've seen and read from LaPierre though.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Some article by some paranoid gun nut who thinks Hilary is making guns an issue.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankmi...gun-bans-and-more-will-backfire/#6dd3299b5700

Hillary Clinton has made gun control into a central part of her political agenda. She sees this issue as a way to get to the left of Bernie Sanders during her fight for the Democratic nomination. History and the polls show this attack on American freedom could cost her in November.

The last candidate to make gun control a central plank in a presidential campaign was Al Gore. His experience is worth remembering.

 

[Dolomite]

No, I mean they pander to paranoia at every level.

I remember that one. They printed it inside one of their magazines shortly after the ATF & FBI burned up a bunch of whackos down at Waco.

 

[Ruprecht]

I remember that one. They printed it inside one of their magazines shortly after the ATF & FBI burned up a bunch of whackos down at Waco.

Well, the NRA used Waco as a cause celebre didn't they? They still do. Waco, Ruby Ridge, Timothy McVeigh... it's part of their narrative.

 

[My Spot]

lol this never gets old:
http://boingboing.net/images/NR-F8_PERILFINAL.pdf

Even the pig looks angry lol

The first pic actually did happen during Katrina when the NOLA police superintendent and mayor decided on their own to legally disarm citizens. Look up Patricia Konie.

Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, U.S. Army National Guard soldiers, and Deputy U.S. Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58‑year‑old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled out of her wheelchair and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.

 

[My Spot]

Well, the NRA used Waco as a cause celebre didn't they? They still do. Waco, Ruby Ridge, Timothy McVeigh... it's part of their narrative.

Which is no different from the gun controlls using Sandy Hook and other tragedies for their spiel.

 

[Ruprecht]

Which is no different from the gun controlls using Sandy Hook and other tragedies for their spiel.

Broadly similar in the sense of using tragedy and well publicised events to promote their political agenda.
The major difference is the narrative and it's target audience. The NRA fosters that intensity gap by peddling identity politics and paranoia to extremists.
Gun grabbers on the other hand tend to promote poorly thought out legislation to the ignorant masses as a knee jerk reaction of "something must be done" in response to highly publicised tragedy.
The NRA's strategy of identity politics and appealing to extreme, vocal elements works well in your political system which favours intensity over demographic majority.
The narrative is ridiculous and the politics are toxic though. Not a strategy that would have worked over here.

 

[My Spot]

The narrative is ridiculous and the politics are toxic though.

Which goes both ways.
Btw, 40% of NRA members today are women and 40% are minority. So much for your white old male narrative that you're being subtle about.