Economy Minimum wage debate: States make their own increases (Post #340)

[Yehudim]

This is incorrect (Smith makes a good point here in the link I posted). Old Goat, right?

You’re not understanding my view, I never claimed it will lead to mass unemployment, my argument is that it is will hurt people we consider at a disadvantage.

 

[Lead]

How about "yes, but we need more research to determine the ideal level?" I think it's clear that an increase is good but less clear how much higher it can be without causing problems.

sounds good, will add it too

 

[Arkain2K]

Why would this be done at the federal level? Each state can and already does set their own based on cost of living.

Why do we need a federal MW hike when cities and states with high cost of living have been adjusting accordingly on their own?

Exactly. There are still some states where two $15/hour incomes can buy a house and afford to live.

Same issue with SALT cap. Disproportionately impacts CA & NY

$15 could be fine in some areas and catastrophic in others. You don't use the same number in NYC or San Francisco as you do in Antwerp, Ohio.

Not a one-size fits all issue. And best left to the states after setting a fed floor of $9 or whatever.

That's why the minimum wage is best set at the state or local level, like it already is.

Seems like we'd have the technology to do this, index the minimum wage to something like the cost of living and home/property prices within a 1 hour commute (or whatever reasonable value) rolled over something like a 5 year span (so you don't have large year to year fluctuations) for non remote positions. Remote positions would follow a national rate.

i think there needs to be some kind of way of adjusting it by regions taking into account cost of living.

bottom line though-- the lowest paying jobs have to pay enough for a person to not struggle financially and have health care and go to college or trade school if they so choose.

zoning laws and government funded co-ops for building alternative homes in areas where that is possible could go a long way towards this.

I feel like it needs to be tied to cost of living per geographic location somehow.

The new federal wage standard should be adjusted to each area in said state

Federal min wage is dumb. $15 in MI is middle class, $15 in NYC gets you a slice of pizza and a cardboard box

There's finally a poll option for those who favors minumum wage by State adjusted to their specific standard of living.

 

[Arkain2K]

One size does not fit all. Let the people from each State vote for their own minimum wage increase that's appropriate for them.
_____

State Minimum Wages
1/8/2021

​

Currently, 29 states and D.C. have minimum wages above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.

Five states have not adopted a state minimum wage: Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee. Two states, Georgia and Wyoming, have a minimum wage below $7.25 per hour. In all seven of these states, the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour applies.

2020 Highlights​

• Twenty-one states began 2020 with higher minimum wages. Seven states (Alaska, Florida, Minnesota, Montana, Ohio, South Dakota, and Vermont) automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living, while 14 states (Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, and Washington) increased their rates due to previously approved legislation or ballot initiatives.​
• Florida voters approved Amendment 2, raising the state minimum wage to $15.00 per hour by 2026. The amendment raises the minimum wage to $10.00 per hour effective September 2021, with a continuing annual increase until reaching $15.00 per hour.​

2019 Highlights​

• Eighteen states began the new year with higher minimum wages. Eight states (Alaska, Florida, Minnesota, Montana, New Jersey, Ohio, South Dakota and Vermont) automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living, while 10 states (Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Maine, Massacusetts, Missouri, New York, Rhode Island and Washington) increased their rates due to previously approved legislation or ballot initiatives. Other states that will see rate increases during the 2019 calendar year include D.C., Delaware, Michigan and Oregon.​
• New Jersey enacted AB 15 in February, which will gradually increase the minimum wage rate to $15 by 2024. (The minimum wage for tipped employees will increase to $9.87 over the same period.) The schedule of annual increases was delayed for certain seasonal workers and employees of small employers, and a training wage of 90 percent of the minimum wage was created for certain employees for their first 120 hours of work.​
• Illinois enacted SB 1 in February, which will phase in a minimum wage increase to $15 by 2025. The measure also adjusted the youth wage for workers under age 18 (it will gradually increase to $13 by 2025) and created a tax credit program to offset labor cost increases for smaller employers.​
• Maryland's legislature overrode a gubernatorial veto to enact a measure (SB 280) that phased-in a minimum wage increase to $15 by 2024 (with a delayed schedule of rate increases for smaller employers) and eliminated and the state subminimum wage for employees younger than age 20.​
• New Mexico enacted SB 437 in April, which will raise the state minimum wage to $12 by 2023. The measure also established a training wage for high school students and slightly increased the tipped minimum wage.​
• Connecticut enacted HB 5004 in May, which will raise the state minimum wage to $15 by 2023. The measure also indexed the minimum wage to the employment cost index.​
• Nevada enacted AB 456 in June, which phases in a minimum wage increase over several years. By July 1, 2024, the minimum wage will be $11.00 for employers that offer their employees health benefits and $12.00 for employers that do not offer health benefits.​

2018 Highlights​

• Eighteen states began the new year with higher minimum wages. Eight states (Alaska, Florida, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, Ohio and South Dakota) automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living, while eleven states (Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington) increased their rates due to previously approved legislation or ballot initiatives.​
• Massachusetts enacted a measure (HB 4640) to increase the state minimum wage to $15 over five years. The tipped wage would rise to $6.75 from $3.75 over the same time period.​
• Delaware enacted SB 170, which phases in a two-step increase. The rate rises from $8.25 to $8.75 effective Jan. 1, 2019 (as amended by HB 483), and will increase again to $9.25 effective Oct. 1, 2019.​
• Voters in Arkansas and Missouri approved ballot initiatives phasing in increases to $11 and $12 per hour, respectively.​
• The Michigan legislature enacted SB 1171, which raises the minimum wage on an annual basis until it reaches $12.05 in 2030.​

2017 Highlights​

• Nineteen states began 2017 with higher minimum wages. Seven states (Alaska, Florida, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, Ohio and South Dakota) automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living, five states (Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Maine and Washington) increased their rates through ballot initiatives previously approved by voters, and seven states (California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York and Vermont) did so as a result of legislation passed in prior sessions. Washington D.C., Maryland and Oregon raised their respective minimum wages on July 1, 2017 due to previously enacted legislation.​
• Rhode Island was the only state to enact a minimum wage increase during the 2017 legislative sessions.​

2016 Highlights​

• Voters in Arizona, Colorado, Maine and Washington approved November ballot measures to raise their respective minimum wages. Arizona, Colorado and Maine will incrementally increase their minimum wages to $12 an hour by 2020. Washington's will be increased incrementally to $13.50 an hour by 2020.​
• New York became the second state to pass a new law that would raise the minimum wage in New York City to $15 per hour by the end of 2018. Washington D.C. followed suit, enacting a law to raise the minimum wage in the District to $15 per hour by July 1, 2020.​
• On April 4, California Governor Jerry Brown signed SB 3 into law. The new law increases the minimum wage to $15 per hour by Jan. 1, 2022, for employers with 26 or more employees. For employers with 25 or fewer employees the minimum wage will reach $15 per hour by Jan. 1, 2023. Increases may be paused by the governor if certain economic or budgetary conditions exist. Beginning the first Jan. 1 after the minimum wage reaches $15 per hour for smaller employers, the minimum wage is indexed annually for inflation.​
• On March 23, Governor Kenneth Mapp of the Virgin Islands signed Act 7856, establishing an $8.35 minimum wage with scheduled annual increases on June 1, 2017, and 2018 until the rate reaches $10.50.​
• On March 2, Oregon Governor Kate Brown signed SB 1532 into law. It establishes a series of annual minimum wage increases from July 1, 2016, through July 1, 2022. Beginning July 1, 2023, the minimum wage rate will be indexed to inflation based on the Consumer Price Index.​
• Fourteen states begin the new year with higher minimum wages. Of those, 12 states increased their rates through legislation passed in the 2014 or 2015 sessions, while two states automatically increased their rates based on the cost of living.​
• Of the 11 states that currently tie increases to the cost of living, eight did not increase their minimum wage rates for 2016. Colorado provided for an 8-cent increase and South Dakota granted a 5-cent increase per hour. Increases in Nevada are required to take effect in July.​
• Maryland, Minnesota and D.C. have additional increases scheduled for 2016. Nevada will announce in July whether or not there will be a cost of living increase to their indexed minimum wage.​

https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx​

Well that go right back to what I said about purchasing power and standard of living by State.

Cali increased to $15 in 2021. Florida only increase to $10, plus $1 each year after that. One might ask "why Florida doesn't need $15 right away like Cali"?

It all make sense when you realize that the average price of a house in Southern California is $750,000, while you can buy one in Florida for $250,000. With that big of a difference, no wonder voters in Florida don't feel like they need the same wage hike like the voters in Cali!

Check out the full list of the median prices for houses across the United States (a great measurement for Standard of Living) and one will immediately realize how ridiculous it is to jack up wage across the board rather than by State:

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-house-price-state/

Minimum wage in West Virginia looks shitty at $8.75, until you realize that the average cost for a nice house there is only $100,000. You read that right! $100,000! That means a family of 2 can literally buy a really nice house there on that seemingly-shitty $8.75/hour!

Meanwhile, $100,000 can buy you a tool shed in California, and not even a good looking one at that!

So why the hell would ANYONE in their right mind would advocate to doubles West Virginian wages to match California?

Imagine what kind of havoc it would do to businesses in West Virginia when even the bag boy and door greeters at the groceries store have their wage doubled to $15 by Federal mandate. How many stores will have to close overnight when their salary expenses doubled while store income stays exactly the same?

This is why I think the batshit-crazy (or incredibly ignorant) people who advocates for a Federal minimum wage hike across the board rather than let the people vote for it in their own State REALLY needs to get out more, just so they can get in touch with the real world, where the difference in Standards of Living in each U.S state are like night and day, and the same $15 can easily buy you three times more (or three times less) of the exact same product/service once you cross a stateline.

That's my reason for supporting the voters from each State raising their own Minimum Wage on their own terms to reflects their own Cost of Living, that means $15 like California if they think it's necessary, or $10 plus $1 for each year like Florida if that's what they truly feel like appropriate for them. That's what Democracy is!

I really want to hear the reason from all those who wants to see the Federal government forcing a $15 Minimum Wage on ALL States at once, who completely ignored the vast differences in Cost of doing Business and Cost of Living between each States, which are like night and day ($15/h is a HUGE amount in fly-over States, where everything costs far less than the coasts and houses can be bought for $100K).

So why do you think we should NOT leave what clearly is a State issue to the voters in each State to decide what's best for them and their economy?

@rearnakedchoke
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[woodguyatl]

I don't see how you implement that nationwide and not have it negatively effect tons of jobs and businesses. If every business was McDonalds and Walmart, then sure. They should have no problem. "Joe Bob's Electronics" in the armpit of Arkansas might be in a bit of a pickle though. A lot of people are gonna be going from $7.25/h to $0.00/h in their soon to be ghost town.

Any business that can't pay people $15/hr is a pretty shitty business and whomever has their capital and time invested in it would do better finding a more productive use of both.

 

[Prutfis]

That's my reason for supporting the voters from each State raising their own Minimum Wage on their own terms to reflects their own Cost of Living, that means $15 like California if they think it's necessary, or $10 plus $1 for each year like Florida if that's what they truly feel like appropriate for them. That's what Democracy is!

I really want to hear the reason from all those who wants to see the Federal government forcing a $15 Minimum Wage on ALL States at once, who completely ignored the vast differences in Cost of doing Business and Cost of Living between each States, which are like night and day ($15/h is a HUGE amount in fly-over States, where everything costs far less than the coasts and houses can be bought for $100K).

So why do you think we should NOT leave what clearly is a State issue to the voters in each State to decide what's best for them and their economy?

@rearnakedchoke
@Torrid
@Daverisimo
@hitcher
@Satanical Eve
@UFCUCF
@Azazyah
@315MMAFighter
@SanJose90
@Prutfis
@Bad Karate
@Krixes
@Anaconda99
@Mike_Tyson_fan36
@Oceanmachine
@spacegnome
@Cracked_Rib
@LynxBR
@Gandhi
@nhbbear
@pinger
@Misfit23
@foxnewsfan
@Denter
@Cirris
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@Tycho Brah
@forum poster
@Michaelangelo
@boxingskills
@BlankaPresident
@Queen B
@blaseblah
@StoooV2
@Jeffy37
@PajamaSnugz

Works just fine in many other countries. Not paying a livable wage for a full time job is some 3rd world shit.

 

[Arkain2K]

Works just fine in many other countries. Not paying a livable wage for a full time job is some 3rd world shit.

That's your argument? That other tiny countries the size of one U.S state do it?

Did you just skipped everything we said about the differences in the Cost of Living across the continental United States in this thread? Like how the median house prices in West Virginia is only $100,000 compare to $750,000 in California?

How are you talking about "livable wage" when you don't even know that you can in fact live quite comfortably on a $10/h wage in the fly-over states, where the Cost of Living is dirt cheap compare to the super-expensive coasts, and an apartment only cost a few hundred bucks a month? How are you expecting the moms and pops stores in the Rust Belt afford to pay the same wage in Beverly Hill?

Whenever the people in a certain State think their Cost of Living is getting higher than their "livable wage", they can - and they are - voting to increase it accordingly, with a number that works for their State, like how California voters just voted to increase ours to $15 while Florida voted for $10 + $1 each year. Don't you believe in Democracy?

I *REALLY* want to hear a logical and well thought out argument as to why we should just ignore the massive differences in each state's Costs of Living and force one size to fit all, rather than allow the voters in each State to determine their own appropriate livable wage in THEIR state, but so far I have seen absolutely nothing that even remotely grounded in reality.

 

[some random guy]

You cant automate creativity.

AI will never make great works of art, or literature, or music, or anything else of that nature.

The smart bet if you want to be “automation proof” is not to be another mindless techie, but rather to embrace your human creativity.

I think you'd be surprised how much "creativity" can be automated going forward by AI, especially creativity in the sense that generates money. A lot of professionals and "skilled" workers tend to have an over estimation of how irreplaceable they are with respect to automation/AI going forward relative to so called unskilled labor. The percentage of labor that truly has a unique skill set is very small.

Automation is also not going to be only factor disrupting labor going forward. Covid has caused a disruptive shift in terms of the idea of remote work. Many people are currently somewhat short sighted in only considering the immediate positives of remote work on their job but they fall to the same trap as those not fearing automation, they gross under estimate how replaceable they really are if the labor competition expands.

There's finally a poll option for those who favors minumum wage by State adjusted to their specific standard of living.

Since you quoted me in this I don't feel having a minimum wage adjusted at the state level or even "local level" (however you define this) is really what I'm proposing either. States are not fine grained enough or too fine grained (eg. California vs Rhode Island).

Minimum wage should be localized but it should be a set national standard that accounts for local conditions (primarily cost of living and property costs). Localization should also be based on actual functional proximity and not essentially arbitrary zones (there's even extreme cases of towns that span more than one state).

Aside from remote and local workers another factor I think should also be considered is whether or not the customer base is more localized or remote as well. This would be avoid a situation in which we essentially have a "servant" area (of say Amazon warehouses) with depressed wages and living conditions serving other wealthy areas.

 

[Anaconda99]

That's my reason for supporting the voters from each State raising their own Minimum Wage on their own terms to reflects their own Cost of Living, that means $15 like California if they think it's necessary, or $10 plus $1 for each year like Florida if that's what they truly feel like appropriate for them. That's what Democracy is!

I really want to hear the reason from all those who wants to see the Federal government forcing a $15 Minimum Wage on ALL States at once, who completely ignored the vast differences in Cost of doing Business and Cost of Living between each States, which are like night and day ($15/h is a HUGE amount in fly-over States, where everything costs far less than the coasts and houses can be bought for $100K).

So why do you think we should NOT leave what clearly is a State issue to the voters in each State to decide what's best for them and their economy?

@rearnakedchoke
@Torrid
@Daverisimo
@hitcher
@Satanical Eve
@UFCUCF
@Azazyah
@315MMAFighter
@SanJose90
@Prutfis
@Bad Karate
@Krixes
@Anaconda99
@Mike_Tyson_fan36
@Oceanmachine
@spacegnome
@Cracked_Rib
@LynxBR
@Gandhi
@nhbbear
@pinger
@Misfit23
@foxnewsfan
@Denter
@Cirris
@Andy Capp
@Tycho Brah
@forum poster
@Michaelangelo
@boxingskills
@BlankaPresident
@Queen B
@blaseblah
@StoooV2
@Jeffy37
@PajamaSnugz

im not american so i cant say. Where i live anybody skill or not gets a wage that you can live off there isnt a job where your not gonna make ends meat in my country it would be looked as criminal. Different cultures hard to judge i guess.

 

[Prutfis]

That's your argument? That other tiny countries the size of one U.S state do it?

Did you just skipped everything we said about the differences in the Cost of Living across the continental United States in this thread? Like how the median house prices in West Virginia is only $100,000 compare to $750,000 in California?

How are you talking about "livable wage" when you don't even know that you can in fact live comfortably on a $10/h salary in the fly-over states, where the Cost of Living is dirt cheap compare to the super-expensive coasts? How are you expecting the moms and pops stores in the Rust Belt afford to pay the same wage in Beverly Hill?

Whenever the people in a certain State think their Cost of Living is getting higher than their "livable wage", they can - and they are - voting to increase it accordingly, with a number that works for their State, like how California voters just voted to increase ours to $15 while Florida voted for $10 + $1 each year. Don't you believe in Democracy?

I *REALLY* want to hear a logical and well thought out argument as to why we should just ignore the massive differences in each state's Costs of Living and force one size to fit all, rather than allow the voters in each State to determine their own appropriate livable wage in THEIR state, but so far I have seen absolutely nothing that even remotely grounded in reality.

Chilllll Winston

I haven´t really given it much thought. I just think a full time job should give a livable wage. Differentiate on a state level, make seperate rules for under 18s whatever.

The US is so biiig. Are americans really so incompetent that they can´t scale up what many many many other countries have done succesfully? I hear this bullshit in regards to healthcare as well. Maybe you just are to incompetent compared to other nations.

So 10$ an hour. 2 parents working. 2 kids. How much does taxes, healthcare etc take of that 3200 monthly? Is the minimum wage 10$?

It´s always "ohhh the mom and pop stores". Maybe don´t have a full time grocery bagger, gas pumper or whatever. Not all jobs are needed. Maybe the US should have sweat shops and slaves again. Then mom and pop can really make a living. Americans are so concerned with anyone below them making a decent wage that it´s almost comical. Meanwhile a guy like Bezos has made billions during corona while amazon warehouse workers have 3rd world wages and conditions. Maybe if billionaires weren´t allowed to dump wages for profits mom and pop could better compete. But noooo it´s the minimum wage keeping them down.

 

[Mcountry]

Why would you reduce hours? Out of principal?Do you currently have people working more hours than you need them to?
If you pass on the price to the consumer or, depending of course on the size of your business, make a bit less profit, that money will circulate in your local economy and a good part may come straight back to you.

If people are forced in to current minimum wage most will never get out. If you are dirt poor and working every hour just to keep a roof over your head you will not have time or money to study, start your own business etc. (Of course we can all point at one or two exceptions, most of whom exaggerate their starting poverty levels).

People doing well should really stop trying to keep other people down, it doesnt help anyone and is an attitude that will lead to civil unrest

There is so much unrealistic expectations here.

Think of a wage increase like new money pool in your consumer. Every business is going to want to take a bit of it. Everything from a stick of gum to coffee to going to the movies.

That's just what's going to happen.

A restaurant doesn't have a huge profit margin to simply eat a wage increase. It's actually a very intense and competitive industry. If the expectation was that we the owners would simply what? Eat the cost? Is unrealistic. At least in this industry. I mean you need to understand that while owning a business can be lucrative, the reality is not every business is FUCKING AMAZON.

We have set costs as a family based on an income we expect within reason and to suggest that we should eat the cost isn't going to happen. To maintain our income level, we will need to now put in more hours into the restaurant which eats into hours of our employees. And where possible, we will raise prices. Either immediately or gradually based on our competition.

Once we get to a point where the prices inflate to a new norm in relation to the new wages, we can then reduce OUR hours and increase our employees hours.

That's called being realistic.

Again. Not everyone is fucking Amazon fella. Most small business do not run with that much of a profit margin.

 

[Prutfis]

There is so much unrealistic expectations here.

Think of a wage increase like new money pool in your consumer. Every business is going to want to take a bit of it. Everything from a stick of gum to coffee to going to the movies.

That's just what's going to happen.

A restaurant doesn't have a huge profit margin to simply eat a wage increase. It's actually a very intense and competitive industry. If the expectation was that we the owners would simply what? Eat the cost? Is unrealistic. At least in this industry. I mean you need to understand that while owning a business can be lucrative, the reality is not every business is FUCKING AMAZON.

We have set costs as a family based on an income we expect within reason and to suggest that we should eat the cost isn't going to happen. To maintain our income level, we will need to now put in more hours into the restaurant which eats into hours of our employees. And where possible, we will raise prices. Either immediately or gradually based on our competition.

Once we get to a point where the prices inflate to a new norm in relation to the new wages, we can then reduce OUR hours and increase our employees hours.

That's called being realistic.

Again. Not everyone is fucking Amazon fella. Most small business do not run with that much of a profit margin.

You completely missed the point on Amazon.
I guess as long as you get cheap shit who cares about wages. Just dump yours below china's and you will really be bringing those jobs back en masse.

Strange that is decent minimum wage is doable in so many other countries.

 

[Mcountry]

You completely missed the point on Amazon.
I guess as long as you get cheap shit who cares about wages. Just dump yours below china's and you will really be bringing those jobs back en masse.

Strange that is decent minimum wage is doable in so many other countries.

It's doable here as well. Just don't expect it to have the impact you expect it to have.

 

[Cole train]

You completely missed the point on Amazon.
I guess as long as you get cheap shit who cares about wages. Just dump yours below china's and you will really be bringing those jobs back en masse.

Strange that is decent minimum wage is doable in so many other countries.

Amazon has slave esque conditions as well.btw

They got bracelets on hands to measure how fast they work

 

[Prutfis]

Amazon has slave esque conditions as well.btw

They got bracelets on hands to measure how fast they work

You also missed the point

 

[Cole train]

You also missed the point

Im not taking part in the wage discussion except for my message at start

I entered thread now only to say that amazon uses bracelets

 

[Arkain2K]

im not american so i cant say. Where i live anybody skill or not gets a wage that you can live off there isnt a job where your not gonna make ends meat in my country it would be looked as criminal. Different cultures hard to judge i guess.

There seems to be something missing in translation here, I think.

Im my country, the people from each State actually gets to vote for the minimum livable wage that they believe is needed to make ends meet where they live. And yes, employers who pays below that IS considered to be criminal.

In California, the minimum amount we voted for this year is $15/hour. People from other States may choose to vote for something else that suits them better, and most of them do, as shown in the links I provided.

But there are people in the thread who are against the mimimum wage being voted for democratically at the State level, and prefers that the Federal government forcing the same amount to everyone, regardless of what the voters think is best for them, and I'm still waiting for those guys to say why that's a better idea than Democracy.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

There is so much unrealistic expectations here.

Think of a wage increase like new money pool in your consumer. Every business is going to want to take a bit of it. Everything from a stick of gum to coffee to going to the movies.

That's just what's going to happen.

A restaurant doesn't have a huge profit margin to simply eat a wage increase. It's actually a very intense and competitive industry. If the expectation was that we the owners would simply what? Eat the cost? Is unrealistic. At least in this industry. I mean you need to understand that while owning a business can be lucrative, the reality is not every business is FUCKING AMAZON.

We have set costs as a family based on an income we expect within reason and to suggest that we should eat the cost isn't going to happen. To maintain our income level, we will need to now put in more hours into the restaurant which eats into hours of our employees. And where possible, we will raise prices. Either immediately or gradually based on our competition.

Once we get to a point where the prices inflate to a new norm in relation to the new wages, we can then reduce OUR hours and increase our employees hours.

That's called being realistic.

Again. Not everyone is fucking Amazon fella. Most small business do not run with that much of a profit margin.

You will see that I said reduce profit if possible, if it's not then no worries.

I get your concerns I have worked in restaurants and know that more fail than succeed and that is in spite of paying terrible wages in general (not saying that applies to you).
It does seem though that what you are saying really isnt any different to what I am, you say by the end of your post that after a transition period we can achieve what I suggest, prices go up a bit, wages go up a bit.

I'm not advocating the guy washing dishes should be paid like a doctor, but he should be able to get by.

I would be genuinely interested how this would affect you as a business owner, how much you pay your staff and what it would cost you, relative to your profits to pay staff 15 dollars an hour. I do of course understand if you dont have the time or inclination to post that kind of thing but it may help peoples understanding.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Well no shit. And if leftists keep on passing laws that guarantee unemployment, businesses will have more leverage over the average worker, since workers will undercut each other to be employed.

Keep your hands off the market and provide help to the few who cant take advantage of the market. It’s better for everyone.

It’s closer to what is going on in Scandinavia than what we have here.

I feel like these arguments were made when child labour laws and safety regulations were put in place....government interference/free market/business will die etc. But would anybody in their right mind actually suggest these things were bad and we should repeal these laws and let the market decide?

The sad truth is the market wont, it doesnt care, big companies simply outsource to places where child labour and unsafe work conditions are accepted to maximise profits and people will accept it because they get cheap end products.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

That's my reason for supporting the voters from each State raising their own Minimum Wage on their own terms to reflects their own Cost of Living, that means $15 like California if they think it's necessary, or $10 plus $1 for each year like Florida if that's what they truly feel like appropriate for them. That's what Democracy is!

I really want to hear the reason from all those who wants to see the Federal government forcing a $15 Minimum Wage on ALL States at once, who completely ignored the vast differences in Cost of doing Business and Cost of Living between each States, which are like night and day ($15/h is a HUGE amount in fly-over States, where everything costs far less than the coasts and houses can be bought for $100K).

So why do you think we should NOT leave what clearly is a State issue to the voters in each State to decide what's best for them and their economy?

@rearnakedchoke
@Torrid
@Daverisimo
@hitcher
@Satanical Eve
@UFCUCF
@Azazyah
@315MMAFighter
@SanJose90
@Prutfis
@Bad Karate
@Krixes
@Anaconda99
@Mike_Tyson_fan36
@Oceanmachine
@spacegnome
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I'm going to say because you are, as you say, one nation under god. Forcing wage disparity on a state by state basis ensures that the market is artificially suppressed in poorer states and people living there are at a disadvantage from the off.

If people can be paid the same everywhere you may get away from the ridiculous extremes of wealth between parts of the country